to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

The OP is a teacher

Government have done a great job of divide and conquer but hey why not it has always been the British way. How about both sides try to work together? Make sure govt provide enough money for cleaning, make the govt look again at letting schools use other available buildings like village halls etc. I'm sure there are loads of things people could come up with.

I'm not a teacher and my kids are grown up so I'm not involved, just seem to see parents and teachers at each others throats when they should be working together for the best result.

Yanbu. I'm a secondary teacher who wants to be back in the classroom. Teaching from home whilst homeschooling my own child (a lot of parents sling this in our faces, but teachers were also working from home and juggling this) is not something I want to do again. However you express my concerns as a teacher and single parent.

What are teachers with children going to do if their DC’s school closes? They won’t necessarily be able to take time off?

As an ex teacher I’m horrified at the contempt some teachers have for parents. Of course the school day facilitates parents being able to work- what’s wrong with that? And children deserve an education and being in school is the best way for this to happen for the majority of children.

YABU

Schools will open. A spike will inevitably happen. Normal winter bugs will also get in the mix.

People will get poorly as they do year on year.

People will get better, the same as every other year.

Covid isn’t a hoax but if teachers are that terrified then just leave the profession. No one is forcing you to stay, if you feel you’re going to catch it and die.....

What about supermarket workers that are in close proximity with people and having to exchange money? Having touch thousands of items every day that have been touched by hundreds of different people?

Again if you’re that terrified hysterical Then just leave instead of complaining.....

What are teachers with children going to do if their DC’s school closes? They won’t necessarily be able to take time off?

Perhaps they'll have a partner who can take the time off. Somebody has to look after them, usually a parents job.
Perhaps you can understand for once why a parent might be required at home.
It would be a first after your many many posts of not getting it

I think the grim reality for many working parents over the next school year is going to be as follows.

1. Schools will close at some point. Each parent will need to use whatever flexibility they have with their employer to cover childcare. Once this, and any goodwill friends/family childcare is used up, one parent will have to give up work. Most likely, this will be the mother.

2. This will lead to loss of income, debt, possibly loss of home etc. People may need to downsize/significantly and/or hugely adjust their lifestyles to cope. Some, who are already near the limits of how much they can cut back or don't have savings to fall back on will be completely up shit creek.

3. There will be a crisis of some sort where we have lots and lots of families struggling to survive financially. Huge surges of people claiming benefits where there would never usually be a need. Housing crisis where lots of families need social housing where there are just none available.

This is not fair. At all. But little about the pandemic is fair. And I'm not sure what the solution is. But let's be honest, this whole situation is going to disproportionally affect working mothers more than anyone else and probably set back working mothers years in terms of career progression and earning potential.

Parents are responsible for childcare, not schools. However I highly doubt any parent of school aged children took a pandemic into account when planning to have children. It is not out of line for parents to have expected school to be available for them to work.

This is going to be the long term fall out of this virus. The effects will be felt long after it's gone.

I have never been so grateful to already be a stay at home parent and have a partner who is able to work from home indefinitely if needed. I feel desperately sorry for those parents for whom two incomes is essential at the moment because I fear practically it's just not going to be possible to maintain in this coming year.

As a single parent whose previous plan B is my mum who is in the over 70 and is in the vulnerable category, my new plan b is that my children will be home alone whilst I am at work. They are 11 and 8 ( going into year 7 and 4) - if I give up work we will lose our home, it's that simple.

@Devlesko - not everyone is a SAHP or works in a job where with little or no notice you can take an unknown amount of time off work.

The bigger issue was the lack of before and after school care here. As it all closed down, with schools open just for the length of school day. Which means if one parent works in a hospital and one as a teacher, who stops work in a pandemic to have the children? Not everyone has family near them, or alive or able to have grandchildren. If schools are open but wrap around care is furloughed then it is of limited use of both parents are key workers.

I find your post quite goady and condescending like many other school posts recently. People know they need a back up plan but most options have been removed and everyone is struggling. No one is a winner in covid. Everyone is just trying to do their best.

This.

Another goady thread.

@ancientgran

Government have done a great job of divide and conquer but hey why not it has always been the British way. How about both sides try to work together? Make sure govt provide enough money for cleaning, make the govt look again at letting schools use other available buildings like village halls etc. I'm sure there are loads of things people could come up with.

I'm not a teacher and my kids are grown up so I'm not involved, just seem to see parents and teachers at each others throats when they should be working together for the best result.

Abso-bloody-lutely!

We are all coming from the same starting points. We all want children being educated in schools and schools open for as long (and consistently) as possible. There should be a natural alliance between teachers and parents and all of them campaigning for the same protective measures. Many parents are, as evidenced by the touching level of support that my school's parents have given us.

Unfortunately, that doesn't fit with the narrative that the Government is attempting to push into the national discourse.

@milkysmum

As a single parent whose previous plan B is my mum who is in the over 70 and is in the vulnerable category, my new plan b is that my children will be home alone whilst I am at work. They are 11 and 8 ( going into year 7 and 4) - if I give up work we will lose our home, it's that simple.

That’s so difficult for you. As you say, if you lose your job then you lose your house. What an awful situation. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place

Ah the "school is not childcare" thing has come up again. Quite simply, many people have children with the idea that once children reach a certain age, they will be in full-time education. While children are getting an an education, they also have adults looking after them, allowing many parents (mostly mothers) return to work.

Personally, I made sure I had a job that involved me working from home before I had kids and I'm self-employed. It was hard work to set up but I wanted to make sure my DH and I didn't have to figure out a plan for sick days, snow days, etc. But not every one has that option. I fully understand the privileged situation we're in and totally understand the parents who need the school day for some sort of childcare/education mix.

Schools need a Plan B to ensure children still get a good education. The govt needs to make sure there's a Plan B. But no, rather than put pressure on them, we have a teacher telling parents essentially they're in the wrong for using school as childcare because they have a (questionable, imo) plan B themselves.

Goady, unhelpful, argumentative. YABU OP.

@Parker231 unfortunately my child has 2 teachers as parents (separated)with no family in the same county never mind town. Therefore we will have to both take time off unpaid, there is no other choice. Nothing else we can do.

I don't blame teachers for anything.

As a single parent though I really have no idea what my "Plan B" could possibly be. I cannot do my job at home, it just isn't possible. I need to work to pay the mortgage, I can't give up work because benefits wouldn't cover the mortgage payments. I have no parents who could help with childcare as my mum still works full time herself. All my friends work. There aren't any available childminders in my area. I really don't know what my options are.

I think the OP has gone to have a long hard think and makes sure she reads the questions before she answers.l.l.

I will teach my students for as long as I'm able, be that due to illness or my own DCs' school having to close.

What's your plan B then? All mine are unworkable with covid. Universal credit if I get fired.

I'm a teacher. We need more funding to make things safe. We need an acknowledgement that our workplaces are less safe than others.

However this thread reads very goadily and probably isn't helping parent teacher relationships.

I just RTFT

I'd not get a week of parental leave approved ever. I'd have to phone in "sick".

Goady post, OP.

Schools have been malfunctioning (as childcare/education?) for months now. Most parents have been relying on their plan B (or C or D, since families and holiday clubs are off-limits) since March. So you seem a little behind the curb saying they shouldn't rely on school for childcare - that boat has sailed. The consequence is women losing their jobs/cutting hours/more reliance on benefit = ultimately a huge increase in child poverty. But it's ok so long as families (and you really mean working parents, mostly mothers) aren't relying on school for childcare .

Tbh, listening to all the talk about "part-time" school/week on-week off etc., I think the government has a real nerve making school compulsory from September. If I had a school-age child (thank God for DS's private fully operational professionally run nursery!), I'd be sending them to grandparents to look after and sod school, so I could keep my job. My neighbours were managing wfh full-time with 2 kids, but what really killed them before the summer holidays was doing part-time staggered drop-offs and pick-ups for their kids in different years. They said it's been much more manageable with no school and a part-time babysitter. They're dreading schools returning in September. Other neighbours are going private with their DD...they were considering it anyway, but have had enough now.

I have no plan B. I will go to work and teach and my children will go to their schools and be taught. If their school closes then they will have to stay at home while I carry on working - we had to do that from March-July.

I haven’t commented on the school threads, but I feel I should on this one.
Do parents see school as childcare, no they see it as education for their children. The DWP however does see it as childcare and many parents especially single mums are expected to work as soon as their child goes to school. So OP stop blaming parents for this. I’m sure you use the services lots of these parents provide. Retail staff, hospitality staff, warehouse staff. They often seem to be in the lowest paid jobs with very little options for a plan B
I’m actually disgusted at some of the sheer superiority shown. I decided to go back to teaching part time this year to help out. We as a society need to accept that schools have to open. We are failing children, the more deprived the child and it’s family the more we are failing them.
I used to hate the thought of norovirus, still do. For personal reasons it’s more of a worry to me than Covid. Yet I still went to work in schools with no mask and no thought that I was being treated badly.
There are sectors that have worked all the way through this, yes teachers have a unique set up, but we also know we have to go back. Why is there so much animosity to parents and children.

Plan B. If secondary shut will be in same position as since March, kids will hang around house all day pretending to do more work than they actually do then their teachers will complain (both model students in school) while I do clinical work cos video consultation or in hospital. I probably could reduce hours and cope as outgoings reduced but feel morally obliged to do my job as its needed.

If primary shuts then my youngest who has had a keyworker place still mean I'm home unable to work ("faciliting home learning") and my nhs service will be suspended as we are short staffed anyway.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss Teachers are not there they supervise children whilst parents work. That’s why we have childcare. but we don’t have childcare do we? What childcare is available M-F for school aged children during term time?