to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

SaltyAndFresh How about an acknowledgement from you that some people can’t not just go to work like you can?

I’m lucky I’m that I’m 18 years in my job and my immediate boss is great, but if I’m down for nightshift then o have to do it unless my leg has fallen off. I need my sleep during the day.

Just have some empathy that some parents don’t have the flexibility that you seek to to just not go to work.

@PerpetuallyUnderwhelmed

I’m not normally a teacher basher but threads like this could easily persuade me otherwise.

You are a public service. You are paid from the tax revenue generated by ‘working parents’. Quit if you can’t swallow that (but then what would you moan about....?)

This.

@IfIHadAHeart

On that basis, you must want schools to have the safety measures that teachers and the unions are pushing for then. Those are what will decrease the likelihood of schools/year groups closing in the first place

For example?

Copied from my post on another thread:

School-based measures would be secure funding for enhanced cleaning, the use of visors or windowed face coverings or screens to help reduce transmission, the tightening of restrictions on the attendance of unwell children, etc.

Community-based measures would be things like better distancing for families and their children, possible restrictions on how open our society is (as stated by the scientific advisors) and making it easier for parents to take leave to care for an unwell child or one who is having to isolate due to a positive result from someone else in the classroom (this would include Government support for the businesses that this affected).

seem to have

@SaltyAndFresh

What, overnight?

I doubt we'll have too much notice, so yes employers are going to have to deal with this. And that's another reason schools might not be able to provide your childcare - many of their own employees have their own children who will have to be looked after at home.

I know all this is going to make working parents much less desirable employees and as one myself, I see the unfairness. At the moment we don't live in a society that can consistently facilitate both parents working full time and unless Covid miraculously subsides, we're going to have to change our working patterns.

Are you saying your school will let you go part time or leave overnight?

OP expects to just tell her employer she won't be in for childcare reasons and still get paid/keep her job

@FinnyStory I didn't say this at all. I'm having to book a week of unpaid parental leave because my DCs' school has school added a week on in sure and is taking it off autumn.

I swear I have deja vu - this thread feels familiar.

@SaltyAndFresh you sound very naive and quite angry.

Are you saying your school will let you go part time or leave overnight?

Well given that I couldn't leave until Christmas they'd have to (I don't want or intend to leave, it would have to be my DH.)

YANBU to expect parents to have a plan B for their childcare if/when a school closes due to an outbreak of infections. However, I don't think it's reasonable for children and their parents to expect teaching to continue even if the school is closed. Private schools have managed very well, some state schools seem to have struggled.

And if your school refuse the parental leave request?

So what will you do next time OP? What's your plan B for that?

@SaltyAndFresh

What, overnight?

I doubt we'll have too much notice, so yes employers are going to have to deal with this. And that's another reason schools might not be able to provide your childcare - many of their own employees have their own children who will have to be looked after at home.

I know all this is going to make working parents much less desirable employees and as one myself, I see the unfairness. At the moment we don't live in a society that can consistently facilitate both parents working full time and unless Covid miraculously subsides, we're going to have to change our working patterns.

I think if you imagine your school are going to just agree to you changing your work hours overnight you might get a shock. DH is a teacher and when he reduced his hours he had to apply in about March to get it agreed for September. They are less likely to just turn around and sack you than a lot of other employers would if you announced you're working half the week from tomorrow (and maybe you should reflect on the relative privilege of being in your position?), but if your school is open and your children's is shut you might find that this idea that you'll just inform them that you're not working your hours any more is... naive.

@SaltyAndFresh

OP expects to just tell her employer she won't be in for childcare reasons and still get paid/keep her job

@FinnyStory I didn't say this at all. I'm having to book a week of unpaid parental leave because my DCs' school has school added a week on in sure and is taking it off autumn.

Do you honestly HONESTLY believe that all parents can afford to do this if it was needed? really? I feel quite sickened if you do and you're teaching children.

I am angry, yes.

@SaltyAndFresh

Are you saying your school will let you go part time or leave overnight?

Well given that I couldn't leave until Christmas they'd have to (I don't want or intend to leave, it would have to be my DH.)

What do you mean 'they'd have to' - people are under contract. They don't just have to. So what would be your plan b?

No I don't believe all parents can afford to. Neither do I believe schools can sustainably stay open as plans currently stand. What's the answer?

So what’s your plan C if you don’t have your parental leave approved?

Well I won't be leaving my DCs unattended so we'll be choosing between one of our jobs as Plan C, at a guess.

The government needs a plan B. This is not something parents and schools can put their heads together and come up with a solution to. It’s infuriating, but I suppose also typical, that this has become a schools vs parents narrative while the govt. just hopes for the best and sits back.

The thing is OP, you know full well that if we go into a big lockdown situation again, the government will ensure key worker provision - everyone knows they have to or there will be no hospitals, police, army, essential services etc. So you're actually in quite a privilege position of your contempt for people.

By the way, do you think your school's contractual obligations to you are as notional as this? That they could just change your working hours and pay overnight and say 'well, you can't resign until Christmas anyway so...'? I suspect you think that the terms of your contract are iron-clad that way round, even though you think that you should be able to unilaterally change your contract and that anyone who can't do the same is somehow underprepared.

I have worked throughout Covid and not at home,
grandparents helped as much as they could but they too were working. The days I couldn’t work from home I had to take my child into work with me which was far from ideal. From September I am expected to work in the office full time and not from home at all as it’s just not doable I need to be in meetings etc so having my child with me in the office for 5 days a week is not doable at all! So no I don’t have a plan B as literally there are no options my child needs to be in school full time before I loose my job and can’t afford to pay my bills. I would have thought many are in the same position and need to work.

@SaltyAndFresh didn’t you come on MN to give us the answer? Come on then - since you’re the expert

Surely as a teacher you can’t just choose to reduce your hours with no notice? I haven’t heard anyone moan about teachers, lots have moaned about schools being closed because it is massively inconvenient - the point about schools not being childcare is pointless. Until 6 months ago I didn’t need childcare mon-fri during term time because my kids are school - doesn’t mean that I think teachers are babysitter, just that it’s a fact that schools provide childcare as well as education.

I can easily work from home, so although I dread having to do my job surrounded by 3 children again, I do have the back up plan. I do recognise that I’m incredibly lucky though, and I really feel for those parents in non-essential jobs who had to try and go back to work before schools and nurseries were open, who apparently weren’t allowed to point out how incredibly difficult this was because they’d be told that ‘schools aren’t childcare’ 🙄