to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

Oh please really?

As key workers who have worked right through this pandemic we really don’t need to be lectured at about what school is and isn’t.

Most employers aren’t able to accommodate requests for reductions in hours. If they do then the welfare state will no doubt pick up the reduction in family incomes.

As for making sure children behaviour appropriately that’s called parenting. Most people do it. Some don’t. School needs to have consequences for those who don’t.

That’s great you can choose not to go into work for childcare reasons. Not everyone will be able to do that and plan b will be “fuck, what do I do now?”’

My plan b will be dependant on several things if and when it happens.

@Chapellass

I've got a plan B for childcare but expect the school to have a plan B to educate my kids if they cannot physically be in school.

This. Parents are responsible for their children when schools close but schools also need to have a contingency plan in place to provide decent online education for those children affected. I know some schools are doing this but bafflingly other schools I know of haven't put anything into place at all.

"I've got a plan B for childcare but expect the school to have a plan B to educate my kids if they cannot physically be in school.
This 👏👏👏👏

But don't you realise that schools are being told to open in full and that the government has no plan B if this fails? It will be on schools again."

Have you read the DfE reopening guidance OP? It's very clear that schools must have a plan to educate if they are forced to close again and to educate those children who can't attend because of isolation

Well you can say that, but for single parents schools are essential to their economic participation! Single parents are expected to be working once their children start school according to the DWP, so don't have much option other than to work and I don't know what sort of back up Plan B you think they should have

My plan B is the children being home alone for long periods of time whilst I work. Which isn't great at the ages of 12 & 10.
The other alternative would be for me to not work, lose my home and spiral into debt 🤷🏼‍♂️

Is that the kind of plan B you're talking about?

My point is that I'm sick of the 'retail/NHS/care/policing sectors dealt with it so so must you'

But the reality is we all must deal with it to the extent that our professional lives demand, or not be professionally active. There are risks for teachers, retail workers, manufacturers, health staff etc etc who each need to decide whether they will stand the risk. I understand that some teachers are anxious, but the reality is that people across all walks of life have continued to work through this, many at great risk with minimal protection.

@IfIHadAHeart

I’m a police officer. How likely do you think it is that my colleagues and I, many of whom also have school age children, will all be allowed to reduce our hours? We are thinly stretched as it is.

I don't know. I'm telling you that I think that's between you and your children's other parent and not up to schools. I will teach my students for as long as I'm able, be that due to illness or my own DCs' school having to close.

Yeah, I still expect schools to reopen.

Oh that’s good you told a poster that her child’s care is between her and the child’s other parent. I’m sure she didn’t realise that and needed reminded.

I think most parents will try their best to have a back up plan,surprised you seem to think they won't
Obviously some of the usual back up is not available during lockdown
But most want schools back and a bit of positivity,not all this is never going to work stuff
And schools definitely need a Plan B
My DCs schools were definitely shut
The level of support/teaching was non existent
This was a bit understandable given that they didn't have much time,but will be unforgivable if it happens again

So you basically cane here to pick a fight, and having got the fight you wanted are:-

I don't know. I'm telling you that I think that's between you and your children's other parent and not up to schools.

Do you honestly think parents don’t know this? After 5 months of negotiating, juggling and stressing about it, you think parents don’t know this?

So your plan B is to take (paid) time off work OP? Would it be OK if supermarkets, hospitals, electricity supply close for the same reason?

I don't know. I'm telling you that I think that's between you and your children's other parent and not up to schools. I will teach my students for as long as I'm able, be that due to illness or my own DCs' school having to close

I can tell you that it won’t happen - we will not be allowed to reduce our hours. Or the majority won’t anyway, because it’s just not feasible. So would you then suggest that I give up work?

DH and I have managed to cobble something together so far, using annual leave, swapping shifts with colleagues and grandparents now that we can. If schools close again though we will be out of options along with thousands and thousands of other parents. You are being disingenuous or deliberately obtuse if you refuse to see that.

And I’m in Scotland, schools went back last week and the teachers seemed genuinely delighted to have the kids back, and parents seemed genuinely supportive of the Covid arrangements. My kids are thrilled to bits to be back in school and the arrangements in place are reasonable and manageable.

Do you honestly think parents don’t know this? After 5 months of negotiating, juggling and stressing about it, you think parents don’t know this?

Well from the number of times working parents on MN have insisted that schools must open as planned, with effectively no measures to prevent spread, so they can work, yes I do think that many parents either don't or pretend not to know this. It astonishes me daily.

@IfIHadAHeart

I don't know. I'm telling you that I think that's between you and your children's other parent and not up to schools. I will teach my students for as long as I'm able, be that due to illness or my own DCs' school having to close

I can tell you that it won’t happen - we will not be allowed to reduce our hours. Or the majority won’t anyway, because it’s just not feasible. So would you then suggest that I give up work?

DH and I have managed to cobble something together so far, using annual leave, swapping shifts with colleagues and grandparents now that we can. If schools close again though we will be out of options along with thousands and thousands of other parents. You are being disingenuous or deliberately obtuse if you refuse to see that.

On that basis, you must want schools to have the safety measures that teachers and the unions are pushing for then. Those are what will decrease the likelihood of schools/year groups closing in the first place.

We can't know it's safe? Actually we can know. Sweden never closed schools and they are fine, no spreads in schools, kids not dying like flies, lower death count than the UK actually.

@Jellycatspyjamas

And I’m in Scotland, schools went back last week and the teachers seemed genuinely delighted to have the kids back, and parents seemed genuinely supportive of the Covid arrangements. My kids are thrilled to bits to be back in school and the arrangements in place are reasonable and manageable.

Scotland have done well. They've managed to reduce the levels of the virus in the community significantly more than in England and they've allowed stronger safety measures in schools than the current guidance for England does.

This is all a bit bizarre.

Luck you, OP, if you and your husband can afford to reduce your working hours and your income.

Perhaps have a thought for those who can do neither?

Also: it's pretty obvious that you, OP, will do your job so long as the schools are open, and that you won't be doing it (in person) if they shut. What's your point, there?

I am certainly not aware of anyone blaming teachers or schools for the existence of Covid. Most parents have simply had a miserable time trying to deal with it. Or are you trying to suggest that "working parents" have brought this misery upon their own heads, and it's their own fault if they didn't plan in anticipation of a pandemic?

As I say: all a bit bizarre.

with effectively no measures to prevent spread

You have measures in place. Enhanced cleaning. Bubble groups and social distancing. Your issue is the lack of masks.

Schools don't generally cater for parents working needs, so I doubt very much that will change.
I fully expect there to be partial closures of schools in future. Any outbreaks in the year bubbles or however schools are arranging pupils will result in kids being sent home for maybe 2 weeks at a time. I don't think we will see unilateral closures again unless numbers really go up.
So in that respect, parents will need a plan for that eventually. It's going to be really hard for some people.

My plan B is to resign from a job I can't do whilst also educating my children. And rely on state benefits. HTH.

Also, OP, it's not only working parents who have wanted their DC to go back to school.

@SaltyAndFresh

Schools exist to educate, society works on an economic level which generally requires parents to work, most parents work during school hours. What’s your Plan B if your child’s school closes and the school you work at doesn’t?

My Plan B is that myself and my DH will have to reduce our working hours to cover it.

What if your employer won't accept a flexible working requests as they have a legal right to do so? Presumably then one of you will hand your notice in to be a stay at home parent - that will require working your notice period. What will you do then while you are working it?

I find your post quite goady and condescending like many other school posts recently. People know they need a back up plan but most options have been removed and everyone is struggling. No one is a winner in covid. Everyone is just trying to do their best.