to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

What back up are we supposed to have? There’s no way to know when replacement care would be needed, and it’s unlikely to be available at all / at such short notice.
My options are that my work allow me to wfh while doing childcare or I take a sabbatical. I’ve been forced to use a large percentage of my leave, or lose it, so that’s not an option. And I’m lucky that I can wfh

Enhanced cleaning. Bubble groups and social distancing

You can clean all day, won’t stop the airbourne transmission. Bubbles mean nothing and there will be none or very very limited social distancing in schools.

Yes, fuck those parents whose own parents are dead, have disabled children who can’t be cared for by others, etc. Fuck single parents who can’t house their kids if they can’t work. Fuck those on zero hours contracts who don’t get sick pay or holiday.

Only a couple of these things apply to me, but I have enough empathy to understand that having a back up plan is a luxury many do not have.

We can't afford it but we'll have to find a way to get by.

Of course, the other way to avoid having to realise this difficult truth is for the general public to call loudly for schools open more safely and for some kind of employment protection for working parents.

@SaltyAndFresh

Schools exist to educate, society works on an economic level which generally requires parents to work, most parents work during school hours. What’s your Plan B if your child’s school closes and the school you work at doesn’t?

My Plan B is that myself and my DH will have to reduce our working hours to cover it.

What, overnight? I recently reduced my hours at work, it took about two months from first talking to my boss about it to it actually starting, having been signed off by all the necessary people. I don't think my application would have been successful if it was 'I'd like to drop a day a week, from tomorrow, that ok?'

@ProfessorFrockdown

This is all a bit bizarre.

Luck you, OP, if you and your husband can afford to reduce your working hours and your income.

Perhaps have a thought for those who can do neither?

Also: it's pretty obvious that you, OP, will do your job so long as the schools are open, and that you won't be doing it (in person) if they shut. What's your point, there?

I am certainly not aware of anyone blaming teachers or schools for the existence of Covid. Most parents have simply had a miserable time trying to deal with it. Or are you trying to suggest that "working parents" have brought this misery upon their own heads, and it's their own fault if they didn't plan in anticipation of a pandemic?

As I say: all a bit bizarre.

Ditto this. I find so many threads by teachers so unpleasant. Yes, there are lots by parents too but it's really opened my eyes to teachers views and beliefs that I didn't really know before.

@CornishTiger

*with effectively no measures to prevent spread*

You have measures in place. Enhanced cleaning. Bubble groups and social distancing. Your issue is the lack of masks.

Social distancing won't exist in schools - that's clear and there is no expectation of it. Bubble groups are only really a tracing measure, particularly when you get to secondary school with bubbles of hundreds of children. Enhanced cleaning isn't happening as the Government has refused to fund it. Many schools cannot even afford to replace the soap, sanitiser and paper towels at the rate at which they are being used.

I have loads of employment protection at work but if I’m one of only two they are nightshift then I can only not go in if I’m at deaths door or have had a bereavement.

Understand that not everyone works in jobs where their abscence isn’t a problem.

@SinkGirl, my own DM is dead and my DFIL is vulnerable so I don't have those options either. It's still not for my DCs' school to facilitate my work.

I’m not normally a teacher basher but threads like this could easily persuade me otherwise.

You are a public service. You are paid from the tax revenue generated by ‘working parents’. Quit if you can’t swallow that (but then what would you moan about....?)

You can clean all day, won’t stop the airbourne transmission. Bubbles mean nothing and there will be none or very very limited social distancing in schools.

So is this about masks? None of the teachers in my kids school are wearing masks and of the ones I’ve spoken with none have said they want to - and they do have the choice to wear them or not so I don’t think they’re simply toeing the party line.

@Nicknacky

I have loads of employment protection at work but if I’m one of only two they are nightshift then I can only not go in if I’m at deaths door or have had a bereavement.

Understand that not everyone works in jobs where their abscence isn’t a problem.

Again, you'll be supporting enhanced preventative measures in schools then given that those will reduce the likelihood of schools closing and you having those childcare issues.

@SaltyAndFresh

We can't afford it but we'll have to find a way to get by.

Of course, the other way to avoid having to realise this difficult truth is for the general public to call loudly for schools open more safely and for some kind of employment protection for working parents.

"We'll find a way to get by" is a line only ever used by people who can afford to "find a way to get by".

It's a line I have used myself - and I am fortunate in that I can generally "find a way to get by".

But could you please, just for a minute, think about all the people who really, genuinely can't "find a way to get by"? Families who will lose their homes if they can't work?

This is certainly an eye-opener.

As a teacher, OP expects to just tell her employer she won't be in for childcare reasons and still get paid/keep her job. Terrible employment conditions in teaching though FWIW I'm a teacher and having previously worked in industry, I do know when I'm well off, amazing how many teachers don't get it.

The furlough scheme is coming to an end and employers rightly want their employees back in the workplace - we are all going back into the office from early September. If schools don’t stay open, staff who work in public transport, hospitals, supermarkets, energy companies, social care etc will be off work caring for their DC’s.

On that basis, you must want schools to have the safety measures that teachers and the unions are pushing for then. Those are what will decrease the likelihood of schools/year groups closing in the first place

For example?

I totally understand that teachers' working environments are not that same as many others'. I think teachers at a secondary level should certainly be allowed to wear masks if they want to and that those who attend school sick or fail to respect rules should be treated very severely. However, teachers do seem to be the only frontline service that doesn't seem to see itself as one. Some of the work people have had set remotely by teachers who are not continuously in school for keyworkers is appalling. And there seems to be an attitude of contempt coming from teachers for parents who have to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Iamnotthrone My kids schools are back. Youngest daughters teacher isn’t wearing a mask even though she can.

I only expect the school to be able to do what is practical.

If school wasn’t also childcare lessons wouldn’t be 9-3:30 as those times are to suit adults, they are not suited to the needs to age groups in school. If schools were purely for the benefit of children they would unrecognisable compared to the system we have in the UK.

My allocation of unpaid leave for the year runs out on 4th September. Lone parent, child with additional needs, a job that cannot be done while also caring for him. If school closes for a prolonged period I’ll most likely lose my job.

What, overnight?

I doubt we'll have too much notice, so yes employers are going to have to deal with this. And that's another reason schools might not be able to provide your childcare - many of their own employees have their own children who will have to be looked after at home.

I know all this is going to make working parents much less desirable employees and as one myself, I see the unfairness. At the moment we don't live in a society that can consistently facilitate both parents working full time and unless Covid miraculously subsides, we're going to have to change our working patterns.

Teachers if you want to wear a mask - do so - I’m sure no ones going to physically stop you.

You're a teacher, so obviously if the schools close you will be able to look after your DC. Most sectors wont close and so parents will have to work. What childcare options do you think exist that could accommodate all of the children in the country? No, there aren't any, so people will need to work from home where they can (with schools doing the education of course), and others may have to leave their jobs or juggle childcare around family, which we may not even be allowed to do.

This thread is pretty patronising OP. I have 3 teacher friends, 2 of whom with kids, who haven't been working because their schools have been closed for the past 5 months. To have a teacher tell people who have had to juggle childcare, home education, and working during the pandemic that we should have a 'plan b' is taking the piss.

@nicenames

I totally understand that teachers' working environments are not that same as many others'. I think teachers at a secondary level should certainly be allowed to wear masks if they want to and that those who attend school sick or fail to respect rules should be treated very severely. However, teachers do seem to be the only frontline service that doesn't seem to see itself as one. Some of the work people have had set remotely by teachers who are not continuously in school for keyworkers is appalling. And there seems to be an attitude of contempt coming from teachers for parents who have to work to keep a roof over their heads.

That's the right word actually..'contempt'. I've been trying to describe the feeling I keep getting from seeing the posts from teachers which makes me feel so uncomfortable and it's definitely contempt.

Contempt at people sending children to school, for wanting children educated, for needing to work, for worrying about loosing their jobs / homes / lives etc and for not maybe being as fortunate as them. It's really opened my eyes.

I'm sorry OP. Selfish parents will cane you over this one. But I totally agree with you.

It’s funny how working parents are expected to have a plan b, but when single mums don’t have one, and claim benefits, they are scroungers who should go to work.