Maintenance money

[Spinachfinger]

I'm ready to be told AIBU here but just wondering what others think.

My ex pays maintenance money for my son of £160 per month.

His job means he gets most of the summer holidays off work. Since lockdown in march I have had sole responsibility for my 2 DC (oldest one isn't my exes).

I have been furloughed til the end of july and am going back to work in August. My ex will have both children whilst I am working and he is off.

Since having the boys at home with me full time since March, suffice to say, my bills have gone up (use of tv, computer, note use of oven,washing machine etc), my food bills have increased with the kids being at home all the time and I have bought the majority of the school uniforms etc for september. Ex has been steadily paying me £160 pm all this time. All good.

Today (yesterday) I wake up to a text from him saying "Do you think it's right I should be paying you £160 for august when I will be having them whilst you're at work? You food bill will be smaller and my costs will go up with extra food and days out etc. Should you not be paying me £160 instead?".

I was a bit taken aback to be woken up by this text.

He mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he would pay me maintenance money for July and August. He said that he would pay me £100 on the 16th July and the remaining £220 at the end of july which would cover July/August maintenance payments. He also said on top of this he would go halves on the school uniform costs.

The 17th of July came and he had transferred £60 to my account. I asked him what this was for and he said for maintenance and that he would pay me the rest at the end of the month. I mentioned to him that he agreed to put £100 in and pay £220 at the end of the month. He said "yes sorry I forgot, do you want £40 now?". I said no, just pay £260 at the end of the month instead if its easier. He accepted this, I have it in my text messages.

So I don't get why he has shifted the goal posts with his text this morning. And the way he worded sounded argumentative to me.

A further thing is that he lives with his mum and dad and pays them no rent whatsoever. His outgoings are minimal. My money has been going out of my account like no tomorrow with food and bills, plus school uniforms etc. He is bringing in a full time wage and pays next to nothing out of it.

What does the MN jury think? Should I pay him £160 if he has them over August? Even if we have pre agreed something else? I will still be having the kids at the weekends and it is only for 4 weeks that he will have them then they are my full time responsibility again when school starts.

@OhCaptain

Do you think there's a possibility that if you go through CMS he'll dump the eldest?

Because if so, as much as he might have you over a bit of a barrel, you need to consider if that's worth it.

I do feel for you. Assuming this arsehole behaviour is one of the reasons you've split!

He might well dump eldest. He has threatened it before (to me, not to ds).

@HugeAckmansWife I have sorted CMS for ds1 as his dad did a bunk the minute I got pregnant. But ex has raised him as his own since he was a baby. He treats him the same as the other.

It doesn't surprise me that he's threatened to dump him. What a dick.

It's good that you at least get maintenance from ds1's father!

The non resident parent should ALWAYS pay maintenance to the resident parent. In this case during August the father is the resident parent and so the mother should pay her fair share

This is not a legal thing. The OP isn't relinquishing her responsibility as resident parent because she has to work and her ex doesn't. They are making a sensible decision based on work arrangements. The OP could force the issue if she takes it to the CMS and would 'win' although what 'winning' might look like from other perspectives is, of course, a different issue.

I think, OP, it might be prudent to make a counter-offer based on him caring for a child that really isn't his responsibility legally (even if he is morally). Maybe half?

Unfortunately once you split up, all the morally this or that won’t matter in terms of monetary contributions. It’s the legal amounts (and CMS is just a minimum remember) that counts.

Mmm I will see what today brings when he comes round. He is taking the kids for a few days his week so i can have a rest before I go back to work.

You had sole responsibility during lockdown and now he's arguing that you should pay him for August! He's having a laugh. Stick to the original agreement AND get uniform money. People saying you should pay him for non biological child, ignore, he's brought them up as his own.

That's all well and good @TooOldForThis67 but feelings and emotions don't come into it.

If he decides not to have the eldest then there's nothing OP can do.

@Spinachfinger has already said that adding up the nights in the year that he has them means that he's paying enough maintenance. And technically, he's "providing childcare" for eldest every time he takes him.

It's not in her's or her son's best interest to demand that he pay for August. She has far more to lose than him.

So what is the calculation if he doesn't have DS for any overnights?
Do you know what is annual salary is?
Because for 160 PM I would suggest it's around £20K per year.
Is that correct?
I don't think he's paying you enough anyway.
If you work out the 5 months with no stays overnight, on £20K, he should have been paying you £200 PM.
£40 short over 5 months is £200. So he has short changed you by £200.
So no, don't pay him £160.
You still need that to keep the house running where your DC live.
You still have to pay all the bills.
He should still be paying you this amount.

However, re-do your calculations if he earns more than £20K per year because he is not paying enough!
CHECK HERE and don't short change your DC if he earns more than £20K.
He should be paying more.
Go via CMS if you have to.

So OP sticks to her guns, ex pays but refuses to have DS1. OP is left with finding alternative childcare. Is that headache worth £160?

But if the op goes via CMS @hellsbellsmelons she runs the risk of her ex abrogating all responsibility for her eldest (who isn’t his) and she would be up shit creek with no childcare and a crap situation for her child.

I would go to csa in sept... once you had your childcare for Aug! Just incase

Isn't maintenance worked out based on annual costs for children and then awarded on a monthly payment? So it represents the non-resident parent's contribution to the ongoing costs, spread over the year, acknowledging overnights etc. Some parents pay maintenance weekly for example, or monthly.
I had to go to court to get maintenance (different country): its court ordered. My ex could have the children for three weeks during the summer, one week at Christmas and Easter (doesnt happen) but he continues to pay maintenance for those periods because maintenance reflects the fact that I am the one who pays everything, does everything and is based on annual costs.
So if my children are gone for August (say if his three weeks summer access was in August) he still pays maintenance, because I am paying for health insurance, dental plan, house costs more (he has a small flat because that's all he needs), hobbies are still paid for...so my expenditure is greater whether the children are with me or not. These are ongoing costs I have every month. This is also what maintenance goes towards, not just food.

@hellsbellsmelons

So what is the calculation if he doesn't have DS for any overnights? Do you know what is annual salary is? Because for 160 PM I would suggest it's around £20K per year. Is that correct? I don't think he's paying you enough anyway. If you work out the 5 months with no stays overnight, on £20K, he should have been paying you £200 PM. £40 short over 5 months is £200. So he has short changed you by £200. So no, don't pay him £160. You still need that to keep the house running where your DC live. You still have to pay all the bills. He should still be paying you this amount.

However, re-do your calculations if he earns more than £20K per year because he is not paying enough!
CHECK HERE and don't short change your DC if he earns more than £20K.
He should be paying more.
Go via CMS if you have to.

Sorry to be a pain, he is on a low income, around 19000. He did the cm calculation a while back and said it was roughly 160 pm so we have stuck to that figure. He didnt have the kids for 3 and a half months. He is generally meant to have them one night per week and school holidays. I don't know how to calculate this properly factoring in the 3 and a half months he didnt have them.

We split up least September, and over october half term when I worked, he stayed over at mine for the week and kept the boys here. That included him staying overnight for the whole week. Same thing happened over xmas hols, and feb half term. He stays over. This is the first time he has suggested taking the boys to where he lives, probably owing to the length of time he will need to have them.

3.5 months should have been at 189 per month - £39 per month at 3.5 is £136 extra he should have paid you.
If he's having both I'd just ask him to keep paying as he is.
If he doesn't want to then work out half of uniforms and extra on food for the 1 DC that is his and see how that works out.

@CleanandJerk

Isn't maintenance worked out based on annual costs for children and then awarded on a monthly payment? So it represents the non-resident parent's contribution to the ongoing costs, spread over the year, acknowledging overnights etc. Some parents pay maintenance weekly for example, or monthly. I had to go to court to get maintenance (different country): its court ordered. My ex could have the children for three weeks during the summer, one week at Christmas and Easter (doesnt happen) but he continues to pay maintenance for those periods because maintenance reflects the fact that I am the one who pays everything, does everything and is based on annual costs. So if my children are gone for August (say if his three weeks summer access was in August) he still pays maintenance, because I am paying for health insurance, dental plan, house costs more (he has a small flat because that's all he needs), hobbies are still paid for...so my expenditure is greater whether the children are with me or not. These are ongoing costs I have every month. This is also what maintenance goes towards, not just food.

This is where I thought I stood. Even in the case of him having the kids over the summer, he will still only have had them 58 nights (?) A year so falls into that 52 - 103 nights per year category. The amount is 160 per month. It's been calculated for the year and is paid on a monthly basis.

With my eldest not being biologically his, he still regards him as his son, he just doesnt pay maintenance for him. Other than that you would know no different. I dont think he will dump my son, he has mentioned this in order to provoke a reaction from me in the past. He is just bluster mainly. A lot of what he does is to provoke a reaction. He likes feeling like he has control over me to some degree so a lot of what he says is built around that.

His £160 PM on 19K is correct.

Technically your ex earns quite well as he lives with his parents. He shouldn’t be expecting you to give him £160 based on his current situation however Im assuming his living arrangements are temporary. I agree with others for the sake of £160 it won’t be worth while if OP has childcare to find for her other child.

I think you need to be very calm and broken record.

£160 per month is for you having DS 53-103 nights over a year. If you get to over 103 nights we can review it. If you aren't going to pay £160 per month on time every month We will have to use CMS would be a shame as they will charge you.

When he threatens to drop eldest DS - "that would be very sad for you and DS when you have such a lovely relationship, I think DS2 would be very hurt by it too"

Stick to the facts, you know he is yanking your chain so just ignore.

So you're getting maintenance for your eldest but won't be passing any of it to your ex who will be looking after him?

Maybe he was hoping toys bring up the matter of money and suggests he pays less OR you pay him some of ds1 maintenance to him.

Surely that would be more than fair?

@dontdisturbmenow - the OP has already said he doesn’t pay anything for her eldest

@RandomMess

I think you need to be very calm and broken record.

£160 per month is for you having DS 53-103 nights over a year. If you get to over 103 nights we can review it. If you aren't going to pay £160 per month on time every month We will have to use CMS would be a shame as they will charge you.

When he threatens to drop eldest DS - "that would be very sad for you and DS when you have such a lovely relationship, I think DS2 would be very hurt by it too"

Stick to the facts, you know he is yanking your chain so just ignore.

Thank you Random.

This is brilliant advice because he does like getting at me. I wish he only dealt in facts but he enjoys getting one over on me to much. I'm just going to remain calm and broken record like you say. This is brilliant advice for all and any times he tries to rile me.

@BluebellForest836, I read the below meaning that OP got maintenance for the eldest from his biological father.

I have sorted CMS for ds1 as his dad did a bunk the minute I got pregnant

@Spinachfinger just be prepared to pay childcare costs for ds1.

Personally, I'd consider it because I wouldn't like this constantly being held over a barrel by him.

Because it's not just access to his son, is it? It's having your older son. And while he might love him he has no obligation to him, as you know. And he sounds the exact type to charge you or refuse to see him again.

It's all well and good telling him that would be a shame but you have to think about the long term affects.

I don't mean emotional ones, because that wouldn't be your fault. But there'll be no more overnights, no more childcare etc.

Can you feasibly and financially work that out?

How do you think his parents would be if he suddenly stopped having your eldest as well?

I suspect it's just a way of bullying you and he actually does live your eldest and also his parents would hopefully tell him what they think of him if he pulled that stunt...

Assuming you get the full maintenance off him I would make a point of sending some £ direct to his parents and thank them for providing for your eldest in their home this of course depends on what they are like etc!