Maintenance money

[Spinachfinger]

I'm ready to be told AIBU here but just wondering what others think.

My ex pays maintenance money for my son of £160 per month.

His job means he gets most of the summer holidays off work. Since lockdown in march I have had sole responsibility for my 2 DC (oldest one isn't my exes).

I have been furloughed til the end of july and am going back to work in August. My ex will have both children whilst I am working and he is off.

Since having the boys at home with me full time since March, suffice to say, my bills have gone up (use of tv, computer, note use of oven,washing machine etc), my food bills have increased with the kids being at home all the time and I have bought the majority of the school uniforms etc for september. Ex has been steadily paying me £160 pm all this time. All good.

Today (yesterday) I wake up to a text from him saying "Do you think it's right I should be paying you £160 for august when I will be having them whilst you're at work? You food bill will be smaller and my costs will go up with extra food and days out etc. Should you not be paying me £160 instead?".

I was a bit taken aback to be woken up by this text.

He mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he would pay me maintenance money for July and August. He said that he would pay me £100 on the 16th July and the remaining £220 at the end of july which would cover July/August maintenance payments. He also said on top of this he would go halves on the school uniform costs.

The 17th of July came and he had transferred £60 to my account. I asked him what this was for and he said for maintenance and that he would pay me the rest at the end of the month. I mentioned to him that he agreed to put £100 in and pay £220 at the end of the month. He said "yes sorry I forgot, do you want £40 now?". I said no, just pay £260 at the end of the month instead if its easier. He accepted this, I have it in my text messages.

So I don't get why he has shifted the goal posts with his text this morning. And the way he worded sounded argumentative to me.

A further thing is that he lives with his mum and dad and pays them no rent whatsoever. His outgoings are minimal. My money has been going out of my account like no tomorrow with food and bills, plus school uniforms etc. He is bringing in a full time wage and pays next to nothing out of it.

What does the MN jury think? Should I pay him £160 if he has them over August? Even if we have pre agreed something else? I will still be having the kids at the weekends and it is only for 4 weeks that he will have them then they are my full time responsibility again when school starts.

@HogDogKetchup

That’s a fair comment OP. Do you know for sure he doesn’t contribute?

Yes, he openly discloses this info to me. He openly discloses to me how much money he has tucked away in stocks and shares. F knows why.

As for eldest son as I keep saying, he bears no legal responsibility for him but ex is his Dad! Has been since ds was a baby. That's their relationship they have. Legally, no responsibility, but morally yes there's an obligation not to split the boys up and 'other' the eldest. Ex took us on as package. He knew that when he got with me. In his credit he treats ds1 as his own still, just not with maintenance money.

But if you already know he doesn’t count DS1 in terms of money, why would you think you wouldn’t owe him for keeping DS1 for virtually a working month?

It’s a bit difficult to mix the use of legal and morals.

Ie for CMS you’d like it to be a matter of morals, hence checking the calculator.

But for your eldest, you’d like it to be a matter of morals.

You can’t really pick the one that suits you best.

*sorry for CMS you’d like it to be a legal matter.

@BluebellForest836

Does your csa cal have 2 kids in it or 1?

To be honest I would ask for the Money he missed in July and half the uniform costs and then let him off the 160 for August.

He’s looking after a kid that’s not even his for a full month.

We havent gone through csa for ds2. It was all done in good faith.

I am a bit put out that it was his suggestion he paid me for July and August, then he has suddenly reneged on that in a pretty argumentative way out of the blue. As he admitted to me on the phone it was to get a reaction out of me. So assuming he actually means what he is saying and not just using it to get a rise out of me, I've put it to the jury so we can discuss it later.

Did you have your DS the whole time during lockdown? Asin, he didn't stay with your Ex at all? If so, the maintenance for those months should have been increased - the £160pm is worked out on him having DS x many times per week, so if he wasn't having him at all, he should have been paying more.
Similarly, if that's the case, if you're not having your son at all in August, he shouldn't have to pay any maintenance (but should still half the uniform cost as agreed).

However, if ex continued to have your son during lockdown on his set days, but will be having him 24/7 in August, then no he shouldn't pay you anything. I don't think you should pay him anything either though, he'll be saving £160 on the money he gives to you, to account for his increased bills.

I will add, that it really doesn't matter if he lives with his parents and his outgoings are less than yours - he pays what he should, despite his situation.

He shouldn’t have gone back on his word, it must be difficult not to be able to plan.

Can you go halves for arguments sake?

How long ago did he say he would pay for july / aug verses when you arranged for him to have them both for all of aug?

@BluebellForest836

Does your csa cal have 2 kids in it or 1?

To be honest I would ask for the Money he missed in July and half the uniform costs and then let him off the 160 for August.

He’s looking after a kid that’s not even his for a full month.

This may be a better solution. I'm still aggrieved he promised me something then pulled the rug, but that's a different matter tbh.

@CherrytreeView

Did you have your DS the whole time during lockdown? Asin, he didn't stay with your Ex at all? If so, the maintenance for those months should have been increased - the £160pm is worked out on him having DS x many times per week, so if he wasn't having him at all, he should have been paying more. Similarly, if that's the case, if you're not having your son at all in August, he shouldn't have to pay any maintenance (but should still half the uniform cost as agreed).

However, if ex continued to have your son during lockdown on his set days, but will be having him 24/7 in August, then no he shouldn't pay you anything. I don't think you should pay him anything either though, he'll be saving £160 on the money he gives to you, to account for his increased bills.

I will add, that it really doesn't matter if he lives with his parents and his outgoings are less than yours - he pays what he should, despite his situation.

Both kids only started staying with ex one night a week again at the end of June. I had to negotiate that with ex as he never offered.

@CherrytreeView

Did you have your DS the whole time during lockdown? Asin, he didn't stay with your Ex at all? If so, the maintenance for those months should have been increased - the £160pm is worked out on him having DS x many times per week, so if he wasn't having him at all, he should have been paying more. Similarly, if that's the case, if you're not having your son at all in August, he shouldn't have to pay any maintenance (but should still half the uniform cost as agreed).

However, if ex continued to have your son during lockdown on his set days, but will be having him 24/7 in August, then no he shouldn't pay you anything. I don't think you should pay him anything either though, he'll be saving £160 on the money he gives to you, to account for his increased bills.

I will add, that it really doesn't matter if he lives with his parents and his outgoings are less than yours - he pays what he should, despite his situation.

This is incorrect. It’s worked out over the whole year. So week by week differences (or indeed month by month) don’t count. It’s the overall number of nights over the whole year that matters.

@BluebellForest836

How long ago did he say he would pay for july / aug verses when you arranged for him to have them both for all of aug?

I found out I would be going back to work in August at the end of June as well. I told ex this as soon as I found out.

Up until the 17th July (when he put the £60 in my account) he has maintained that he would pay me in July for both July and August, even though he KNEW he would be doing the brunt of the childcare in August. It was only yesterday morning I woke up to that text.

Honestly, considering all factors the best thing to do would be to get the rest of July's money and the money for uniforms.

I wouldn't pay him for August, but I wouldn't expect maintenance from him either.

Regardless of how he feels about your eldest, he's not his dad. So he's essentially providing a full month of free childcare including overnights.

His financial arrangement with his parents are none of your business. It doesn't matter if you approve or not. Nor does it matter if they're contributing to your sons' upkeep while there.

The kids are safe, fed, and housed. That's the extent of it as far as you should be concerned.

I know you're annoyed and I know he said he was trying to get a rise out of you? (Why?!) But leaving everything but practicalities aside, it's best to just not take maintenance for the month that you don't have them!

I do think re CMS that as you say, it’s the overall year that counts. We have had SS for most of July and obvs that increases our costs in the short term but is accounted for in the average of nights over the year and that is the same for you and your ex.

It’s just difficult with your DS1 as obviously that’s governed by goodwill and not CMS.

Regardless of what happens I think the future is via CMS as he is clearly going to dick you around for a reaction.

Are the divorce finances sorted or are you not married?

@BluebellForest836 we also communicated the agreement in text on the 17th July and we both agreed to it. So if he had an issue why not say then?

@RandomMess

Regardless of what happens I think the future is via CMS as he is clearly going to dick you around for a reaction.

Are the divorce finances sorted or are you not married?

You're right, he will continue to dick me around. Thankfully we never married. He was awful to me about that too. I may well go the CM route

Go through CMS is what I’d normally say.

But in your position, you might find that then you won’t get any good will towards your eldest.

You have ever right to be annoyed as it’s short notice...

I might even drop in there that as he didn’t have the kids at all for a period of time he should of technically paid extra to cover what he missed so Can he pay..

The rest of julys
Half the uniform
£40 of August money to make up what he missed previous as he wasn’t having them.

So he keeps £120? If he really moans just ask for the top 2.

Next time he doesn’t pay the correct amount though and offers to send it, take it. Don’t let him off til later... specially as he isn’t short!!

we also communicated the agreement in text on the 17th July and we both agreed to it. So if he had an issue why not say then?

I recon it was an after thought. He never thought of it at the time and it’s popped into his little head at a later date and now feels hard done by

Do you think there's a possibility that if you go through CMS he'll dump the eldest?

Because if so, as much as he might have you over a bit of a barrel, you need to consider if that's worth it.

I do feel for you. Assuming this arsehole behaviour is one of the reasons you've split!

Also. Is he going halves on uniform for one, or both?

@BluebellForest836

we also communicated the agreement in text on the 17th July and we both agreed to it. So if he had an issue why not say then?

I recon it was an after thought. He never thought of it at the time and it’s popped into his little head at a later date and now feels hard done by

I've been thinking about this. I actually think the £60 was put in my account on purpose. When I queried it, his response was "how much should it be?" And I said "you should know how much it should be, you chose the amounts. You said £100, followed by £220" and he said "yes that is correct"

...

But...... I know what he is like. He likely put the £60 in on purpose in the hope that I would forget what was agreed. Unfortunately when he made the initial agreement, it was verbal and over the phone. It's only when I've put it in text form he has said yes, that's correct.

He will have done he £60 on purpose in the hope of giving me £100 at the end of the month and thinking I wouldnt notice. I know his personality type too well.

Just another game in his world. Truth me told, if he wasnt always trying to me sly with me about stuff and spoke like an adult, I wouldn't normally mind about this stuff but he is money grabbing by nature. His text was not very nice, he could have chosen a better way to say "can we discuss x, y and z" but he does things to get a rise out of me.

I think if he has raised DS1 from a baby it would extraordinarily dickish for him to suddenly now start treating them differently and charging childcare to look after him. The children are siblings. How often do we see biological fathers who disappear called "sperm doners" - they aren't real fathers. What counts (morally) is who has raised the child and that is the OPs ex. Legally in terms of maintenance owed, no, he's not liable for that child (OP, why is that child's father not paying CMS?) but to suggest he is providing free childcare to some random kid and the OP should be grateful is ridiculous. OP I hope that you are able to show him how much extra it has cost you over the last 5 months and that he is being unfair to ask you to now pay for this one month that he is actually parenting (no doubt with lots of help from his parents)

I don't think it should change. £160 a month is not a lot anyway. Just say, no, we will keep things as they are. If he continues to complain, send him a list of what it costs to "look after" (For want of a better phrase) his DS a month, include rent, food, utilities, clothes, haircuts, and whatever else is paid for, divide by 3 so he can see exactly how much it costs to bring a child up, then, thank him (sarcastically) for his 160 a month contribution.