Boy mum and girl mum double standards

[Pumi23]

I really want to get a perspective on this as I’m curious what others think. I just read and replied to another post about a woman not wanting her MIL to move in with her but when you read the thread you realise her own mother lives with her brother and his family and often comes to stay with herself and her DH which he never complains about. I just see so much of these double standards.

I only have daughters but I often think boy mums have a rough deal as the girls naturally are more accommodating and accepting of their own mums. I try to be fair to both my DM and MIL. I don’t have “rules” for my MIL like others seem to have. Both my own mum and my MIL annoy the heck out of me but I don’t show favouritism to my own mum. They are both equally welcome to visit when they want and see my kids when they want. We invited both sets around when kids were born. My friends have been in situations where only the girls parents and family were “allowed” to visit when baby was born but them being in-laws and boys family they had to wait 4 weeks. I just feel it’s really sad she wasn’t allowed to see her own grandchild the sane time as her DIL mum

What do the rest of you think?

I had a far better relationship with my mil than my mother. Mainly because she listened. And she still noticed me, not just the babies.

santaclaritadiet (fab name!)

I agree with your point, but I think if we are talking about immediate after-birth, it's entirely up to the new mother.

agree - but we did start talking about times outside of right after the birth. I completely agree that until the new mum is on her feet again and "receiving" visitors she gets to call the shots (within reason.)

But in general the vibe I'm getting on this thread is that the DIL has to facilitate the relationship. Fuck that shit (I'm biased because i loathed my own MIL - not even because of how she treated me, i married her golden child and was like the second coming - but how she treated my SILs)

She would just sit on the sofa for three days straight with her note pad, dozing off from time to time. Wouldn't offer to lift a finger to help or play with her grandkids

gosh, SwedishK - did you ever reply saying "vacuuming? you could have done that…"?

I think it's a common thing that boy children generally step away and get on with their own lives, and girl children feel more of a long-term obligation

It seems to be the norm on MN that as soon as a male is in a long term relationship he is expected to remove himself from his own family circle, the woman's opinion is the only one that counts, expecially where children are concerned. I feel very sorry for many of them, his birth family will always be his family, it may be that the other partner's family will not always be around.

The competition to have the "first cuddle" is unhealthy and damaging to the mother.

Who's talking about competition? I'm just talking about fairness. It shouldn't be about one family being prioritised and the other left to wait their turn for weeks.

In my daughter's case the plan was that the GPs wouldn't visit until a few days after the birth, and at home. But I dropped some things off at the hospital for my daughter, and asked the ward staff to pass them on. I'd just returned to my car when my son in law phoned to ask if I was still around. The bag had been taken to them, DD was feeling good and happy to show baby off if I was there. It was lovely to see the baby, and when I'd gone, she called the other set of GPs so that they got the chance to visit too.

That's the sort of thing I mean. Fairness and an appreciation that both families care and want to celebrate with you.

@OneForMeToo

You can see the posts already. Hoping their further ds don’t push them out of their GC lives.

The thought is already on the GC not their sons being happy with a lovely partner just the future GC. These women are not just incubators for your future GC they are hopefully your sons life partner.

I am in no way thinking of just any future GC. Of course I want my DC to be happy with who they marry. I'd hope that they would want to see me as much as their wife/partners family.

I had no relationship with my father's mother until I was an adult and could facilitate it myself due to my mother's bias.

Thus, when it came to having my dc I was as fair as possible. Both sides met dc1 on the same day in hospital (after an exceedingly long rubbish labour and emcs). Inlaws got to meet dc2 first purely because they ended up looking after dc1 and given they had to collect him from the hospital at 5am...and my dad had just died in one, he wanted to come and see me the day dc2 was born to make I was okay. My mum got to meet her the next day though. I wanted my kids to have a good relationship and loads of memories with both sets of grandparents.

Women will always have a better relationship with their mum than DH's mum

Not really. My mil is supportive, understanding and kind. She's never told me she wished I was a cot death statistic or that I should abort the healthy foetus that became dc2.

I think one of the reasons that mothers are "favoured" over mother-in-laws is that relationships between mothers and daughters are frequently nurtured independently of any grandchildren. Among my (utterly unrepresentative sample) group of friends all of us who have mothers alive and nearby are engaging in daily whatsapp conversations, weekly/fortnightly phone conversations, days out (when not in crazy times), lunches etc and these don't have anything to do with the grandchildren (any childcare/ get togethers with them are in addition).

Whereas my DH and the DHs of the same group of friends rarely call their parents or stay in touch via whatsapp/text. The only time my DH contacts his parents is to make an arrangement to meet (with grandchildren), or return their call. In our marriage (10 years) DH has on about 3 occasions met up with his father to go to a football match (the main attraction being the match), and has never met up with his mother without it being a family occasion.

It just so happens that my in-laws are lovely and make a huge effort to see their grandchildren (and also are great with tidying, cleaning our house etc so basically a pleasure to have around). But if they had never made an effort and if DH continued not to "champion" them, I am not sure why it would be my responsibility to ensure that the relationship was in any way "equal" to that of my parents.

I have a good relationship with my MIL and she and my FIL came to stay as soon as we were out of hospital after I had DS (and would have been welcome to visit us in hospital had they lived closer and been able to). I try to be very aware of the relationship, DH is her son and still her "baby" even if he is in his 30s, particularly now I've had my own DS, as I know it would devastate me to feel excluded in the future if/when he has his own family. I am lucky, though, as MIL is more like a friend/second Mum to me. I love her to bits. Sure, she has her quirks and sometimes she drives me potty, as does my own DM, but I think she's fab and know I'm very lucky as she's not at all overbearing, very supportive, and desperate to ensure we have a good relationship as her relationship with her own MIL was difficult and she doesn't want me to feel the way she did. I'm very lucky and hope to be a MIL like her with a similar relationship to the one we have when DS grows up and finds a partner. That being said, I do think the relationship with sons and their parents is different to that of daughters. I speak to my parents frequently, frequently meet my DM for walks/shopping/coffee, and often pop up to see them on days I'm not working. DH phones his parents once a week and is pretty rubbish about arranging to see them. It's not that he loves them less or their relationship is worse than mine with my parents, it's just the way he is, I think, so I try to encourage him to stay in more frequent contact/make arrangements with them as I don't want them to feel left out or like we don't make an effort with them.

If someone has to specifically exclude visitors, it means there is a huge problem in the relationship anyway. There should be enough clear and obvious boundaries that people show respect and wait until the mother is ready, and there's not need for obvious exclusion.

For me, the pressure to see someone would make me kick back. My own mum was very good for keeping visits short and not hogging my newborn nephew, saying he only wanted his mum. My sister's MIL just held him and stared at him for hours, when my sister just really missed him from across the room. All when my sister was feeling worn out and weepy to assert herself. (BIL was a knob, but we won't go into that).

The more I felt someone would be the latter, the less I'd be willing to let them visit.

(My MIL has a habit of agreeing with you in spirit when you mention things like this, then forgetting it all in the moment, if our wedding is anything to go by.)

Why are managing family relationships always down to the woman!? Shouldn't the man be responsible for his side of the family and maintaining that relationship?
My DH has a difficult relationship with his family anyway so it's not that complicated for us. But if he was close to his Mum and Dad, I would expect him to organise when they would come to visit etc..

Surely the problem is the relationship between boys and their mum’s then? L

In general I think girls make more effort to contact/keep in touch with their family (though there are exceptions and I have seen a number of devoted boys too).

I think you have to look at the reasons for different treatment rather than just going 'they're being treated differently, that's unfair'.

Take giving birth for example, I want my mum there because she's there for me, she's loved me and raised me and although I wouldn't just strip off in front of her I don't feel uncomfortable with her seeing me in a state of undress, in pain, legs in the air and possibly shitting myself. My mums there for me whether MIL is there primarily for The Dad and the baby and as the dad isn't the one giving birth it's not about him and until the baby's out it's about the mum, not the baby.

Same for coming to the house. When my mum comes over she helps me with things, yes she's a guest but I don't treat her like one, I don't need to clean for her or worry about being presentable and tidy or not walking round in my dressing gown whether when MIL and FIL come I do. MIL is also much more critical (only of me, sexism much ) if the house isn't clean and tidy whether my mum doesn't care.

Similarly with being 'allowed' to do task. When my mum, for example, helps with the washing she just gets on with it, sits with me whilst we fold clothes and chat about other stuff, I have no problem with her seeing my underwear because she's my mum. Whether with MIL when she has helped with washing in the past she comments on my clothes, my underwear, how I wash and fold things ect. Also as my MIL I feel uncomfortable with her handling my underwear, whether DP has never expressed a problem with my mum handling his and if he did I'd respect that, still might get her to help me with washing but only my stuff. If only DH is in and MIL comes round I have no problem with her helping with washing as long as it's not my intimate clothes, and DH knows this, because I don't have to listen to her criticism, but he knows and respects my boundaries.

So yes it is one rule for mym one rule for MIL but it's for good reason, because they have entirely different relationships with me.

I love my MIL. She had a battle axe of a MIL and never wanted to be like that. So I think if my MIL has any faults, it’s that she’s too polite and too understanding. I get on really well with my MIL. I buy most presents for her not because DH expects me to but because I have a great relationship with her and enjoy finding gifts for her. Fortunately both my mum and MIL have more relaxed standards in terms of clutter so I don’t feel the need to kill myself hiding all the clutter in our house when either visit (unlike when my step-mum visits).

My MIL did my wedding dress up for me when we got married, so she’s seen me in bra and knickers and spent a long time staring at my back while she did up the corset back. However, if I’m vulnerable, like after giving birth, I want my mum. It doesn’t matter how much I love MIL, it’s not the same bond that I have with my mum. I think as women it’s much easier than in any time of vulnerability (not just after giving birth) we can admit we still want our mums. I’ve heard women in their sixties who have recently lost their mum speak openly about never stopping wanting your mum but I’ve not heard men say the same.

If we’re talking in terms of care for elderly parents, care will usually fall to the woman. Again, due to the bond with my mum I’m much more likely to go further for her than I am my MIL. Or more accurately, my breaking point might be a lot further a long with my mum even though she’s likely to be a much bigger pain in the arse than MIL. It’s hard to dedicate yourself to that level of care for someone you don’t have that parent-child relationship with. And to be perfectly blunt, DH is never going to give up his career and care for my mum (they get on too), so why should I do the same for his mother?

If a women is doing most of the childcare we tend to take our children to the places we are more comfortable. I’d much prefer a visit to my mums than my MIl’s. I don’t imagine if DP was doing 90% of childcare he would often take DD to my mums.

As the mother of 5 sons, I worry about this exact thing a lot

Do you expect potential partners to facilitate your relationship with your sons? Or to remember his family birthdays/events for him? Or to iron his shirts to your standards whilst working full time and juggling house and kids? Or to be present at the birth/immediately after if she wants a few days peace?

If not, you are unlikely to have problems.

We don't choose our inlaws, most people rub along as best they can. The problems arise largely from unfair and sexist assumptions about women and women's roles. Raise your sons to be equal partners rather than to seek surrogate mothers and the chances are your relationships will be just fine.

That saying is awful, sexist and outdated. It's attitudes like this that drive the shitty relationships leading to the MIL threads here
It is but it has been conditioned by many a generation and today the load mainly falls to women for care ie daughters.
My Dbro was the apple of DM's eye he visited every 2nd month she loved him dearly he loved her, we the daughters done the care.
He lives close by he just does what is easier.

I think it's natural after you have a baby to want your own mum as you are recovering from the birth and you're feeling vulnerable. You are their child. We were determined to be fair with visits to baby DD but after I had her it quickly became apparent that I needed my DM around more for support.

I think that's a bit simplistic.

Many women don't want to get their breast out in front of MIL (or FIL! ) but can do it in front of their mum. They might not be sure how their MIL would react to them staying in PJs all day and not doing housework etc where as if your mum mentions dishes stacking up you can freely tell her to shut up because you've just had a baby.

If you aren't close to your son before he becomes a father then it's strange if you expect to magically become closer afterwards. Effort has to be put in to socializing with your son and their partner so they feel close to you and not provider of grandchild. Some MILs are excited to become grandparents but forget that their relationship with the parents are important too. MILs who act like this aren't usually sidelined ime. If a son doesn't care about his relationship with his mum and sees her 3 times a year then don't be surprised that his mum sees her grandchild 3 times a year. The worst thing that a MIL can do is blame this on his partner. The 3-times-a-year dynamic was decided by son and mum.

I think that in families where both sides see the grandchildren more equally, the father does a big chunk of the childcare and housework so is more proactive about visits to his side of the family. I suspect that a massive proportion of ILs who get fewer visits only do so because the wife prompts the husband that it's been x weeks since the last visit or the husband's mum asks him to visit (ie women nagging the son)

My dh doesn’t call his mum really if he does his asking a favour mainly. While I will ring my mum to check in about an issue I know they are awaiting to be resolved etc.

That’s not favourites but it is his job to check in that his family is ok, I would expect him to ring my mum to check my fathers meds are ok this time etc so I wouldn’t overstep that line with his parents. Of course if I bump into them I’ll ask about whatever it is I know is an issue.

My sil announced her births to him, not me Since she’s his sister of course so he can respond with the congratulations and arrange the card and presents. If I see her I will obviously say congrats and admire the baby etc. He didn’t sort anything and No doubt I got the blame however. But again he wouldn’t arrange cards and presents for my side so I don’t sort it for his apart from gentle reminders.

Boys just don’t seem to be expected to take part in life the same as women which once again however falls on the way the women raised him

Wouldn’t not would. I’m ready to throw this phone.

Who's talking about competition? I'm just talking about fairness. It shouldn't be about one family being prioritised and the other left to wait their turn for weeks.

you are missing the point: the person who is prioritised is the MOTHER. It becomes a competition because one family seems to think: if the others have visited, so can we. It has strictly nothing to do with them and they should show a little respect.

The fact that some people are completely missing that point clearly shows WHY the new mother is not in a rush to see them. Because clearly SHE is not the priority, and her mental or physical needs are completely ignored.

Why isn't the reasoning: what do you need, what can we do to help? instead of "we want our turn to visit".

I adore my MIL (and FIL) and don't have any different 'rules' for them vs my own DM.

We end up seeing a fair bit more of MIL because we live near her whereas my DM lives 200 miles away.

@Pumi23

I also think it might be due to boy’s not being so “loving” (sorry not the best word, I’m not making this clearer as English is my 3rd language lol). my husband needs to be reminded when his family birthdays are coming up whereas I remember everyone’s birthdays.

My DH is very family orientated. He never needs to be reminded about birthdays (which is lucky because I wouldn't remind him). He does all the card and present buying for his side as I do for mine as it should be.

DH also often drops over to see his parents, sometimes with me, sometimes without and quite often because we need to borrow something (my PILs have everything!).

TBH DH and his family have a really wonderful family relationship which I value as having come from a dysfunctional family full of narcissists (my own DM is the only one who isn't one) being able to see normal, functional family relationships in action is good for me.

My MIL has always been a stranger to me. Her relationships with her own DC never mind partners were always controlled by her DH so she came across as absent and/or disapproving.

My mum was my mum. She wasn't perfect but I knew her and was comfortable to be needy and vulnerable without fearing judgement - very important following childbirth.

To give to them equally would have been unfair because they did not give equally.

But there is gendered inequality in the amount of care that daughters (and sons in law) are expected to give in relation to sons (and daughters in law).

My brother and his wife absented themselves from personal care because they felt uncomfortable but expected me and my husband to help mum to a commode, clean her etc. For some reason my brother thought mum would be less comfortable with him helping with personal care than my husband.

I have an occasionally strained relationship with my DM (she is better then she was), she needs strong boundaries setting.

My MIL in the other hand is a marvellous woman. So supportive, doesn't judge, follows the parents lead with the grandkids.

MIL is also younger, and lives closer, so that does have an effect.

My MIL was at DDs birth, my parents came 2 days later and I had them stay in a hotel because I didn't feel comfortable with the staying in our small house.

MIL babysat for the evening when DD was 3 months, my parents only had DD unsupervised at three years.

MIL (and FIL) had DD for four days and nights last year (at 3) while we had a long weekend away. We're thinking about my parents having her overnight soon, maybe.

For us it's about the fact that my parents don't follow instructions or listen to us, so we've waited until DD can speak for herself, I'm not sure I'd have any of them live with me, but I'd pick MIL if I had to!