Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To miss my good looks.

207 replies

lovelifehope · 27/06/2020 22:43

I know it’s shallow in the big scheme of things, but I cant help the way I feel. Good looks fade so quick, aibu to mourne their loss? Sometimes I feel invisible.Anyone else feel the same?

OP posts:
LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 09:24

What makes you say it's nonsense TSwift? I mean...twee...ok, yes, but it is from a children's book, so symbolism is bound to be a little obvious and cliched at times.

LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 09:25

Yes, feelingfragile, that's how I have always understood it too. It doesn't mean you will morph into Angelina Jolie if you think about nice, fluffy kittens all day 🤣.

formerbabe · 28/06/2020 09:26

See my username

ShebaShimmyShake · 28/06/2020 09:30

Roald Dahl was a wonderful writer but really not a good person, though he did suffer a lot of personal tragedy. Very antisemitic. A product of his time, I guess, but I'd be wary of looking to him for advice on self-improvement. I never liked that paragraph even as a youngster. I was convinced I was ugly, so what did that mean? I do think it was well-intentioned - I think he meant that conventional standards aren't the ultimate authority on what is beautiful - but yeah, it wasn't well thought out. Actually the guy in Esio Trot is a dishonest arsehole too!

I don't think I've aged out of my looks yet (I'm in my 30s and honestly think I look better now than in my 20s) but I admit I don't like the idea of it happening. Eating well, lots of weights, cardio and good sex do seem to keep me buoyant but I'm aware that there's a lot of privilege and good fortune involved in those, and even with them, nothing lasts forever.

Pelleas · 28/06/2020 09:32

I always interpreted it as saying that even with perfect features and classic good looks, if you are cruel, vindictive, a bully or generally unkind, people will still run a mile from you, despite your good looks.

The quote wouldn't be as harmful if that's what Dahl had said. The problem is that he framed the importance of good character in terms of good looks. Even though he might have intended to say that looks are unimportant, he still centred good looks in that message.

I am not wholly anti-Dahl - as a writer he was brilliantly inventive and funny - I loved 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory' as a child - but, as you say, he was flawed as a person. If you look at his adult works - the 'Tales of the Unexpected' stuff, much of it is frighteningly misogynistic (the stories in 'Switch Bitch' for instance).

people will still run a mile from you, despite your good looks. I definitely think this is true.

I don't think it's true in the general way you mean. People who are good looking attract those who (at a conscious or unconscious level) want to have sex with them. This leads to continuous micro-privileges (people generally responding positively to them, being helpful and friendly in everyday life, bending rules in their favour, being interested in what they have to say) and also more important things, such as success in job applications or promotion. There have been social experiments showing how much nicer the world is if you're attractive (comparing the number of people in a public place who will come to the aid of someone in distress when they are attractive vs not attractive).

Yes, anyone can lose friends or destroy a relationship by behaving badly, but that's not evidence that 'looks don't matter'. At a certain level of unattractiveness, the difficulty is getting into a relationship in the first place. Same sex platonic friendships aren't usually an issue, because no one minds an ugly one in the group to make the others look better by comparison.

The message we need should firstly avoid any linking of looks to character, which is the most harmful part of Dahl's message. It should secondly acknowledge that looks do matter, and not everyone has them. It should thirdly promote that other talents/qualities also matter and emphasise the importance of playing to those strengths. Finally, an acknowledgement that looks are, to a certain extent, ephemeral would be reassuring. Yes, you can still be attractive at any age but no-one keeps the head-turning loveliness forever.

LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 09:35

I agree with your assessment of Roald Dahl.

Re you feeling ugly when you were younger and what did that mean for you? I was similar. Not at all pretty or classically good looking, but I always took it to mean that this quote meant, none of that mattered and if I had a good character and personality, people would still want to be friends with me. Obviously, by the time I reached my teens, I just wanted to be a hotty and no boys were interested in me really, but, tbf, I doubt that had anything to do with them reading too much Roald Dahl.

rosegoldwatcher · 28/06/2020 09:40

A friend and I were discussing aging. She loves being in her 50s because she 'can say exactly what she wants to say.' (Actually she has always been quite forthright.) I said that I hated it! "That's probably because you were a pretty girl," she replied.
The menopause hit me over the head; overnight (so it seemed) I expanded from a pear to a melon and everything that had, up until then, pointed forward suddenly headed south.
At 59 I know that my looks have gone for ever - the only way that I deal with it is by avoiding mirrors and never have my photograph taken.
I have a wonderful life in all other ways though so...

Two homilies that come to mind, OP are, "The only alternative to aging is death," and, "Beauty fades but stupid lasts for ever!"

LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 09:40

I don't think it's true in the general way you mean. People who are good looking attract those who (at a conscious or unconscious level) want to have sex with them. This leads to continuous micro-privileges (people generally responding positively to them, being helpful and friendly in everyday life, bending rules in their favour, being interested in what they have to say) and also more important things, such as success in job applications or promotion. There have been social experiments showing how much nicer the world is if you're attractive (comparing the number of people in a public place who will come to the aid of someone in distress when they are attractive vs not attractive).*

Yes, I absolutely agree with this^^. However, I think there is a place for the argument that looks are not the be all and end all.

Also, being sexually attractive doesead to micro privileges; the people doling out the micro privileges are the most privileged groups.

But, seeking to combat this unhealthy dynamic, by saying that classic good looks do not mean you are the best or most attractive person, is valid I think. And this was the point I was trying to make.

fuckoffImcounting · 28/06/2020 09:42

67 here. Still feel attractive except for the wattle. Watch out for the wattle - its a bummer.

Stuckforthefourthtime · 28/06/2020 09:44

I didn't realise what a harsh and sexist place the world is when I was younger because my looks protected me from it. Men were nice to me. They didn't patronise me and talk over me, they wanted to talk to me. Stupidly I thought it was because they viewed me as an equal. When I got older and invisible I realised, and I was ashamed that I hadn't noticed it.

^This.

Nanalisa60 · 28/06/2020 09:46

I was a very pretty girl, looked very much like princess Diana, I’m now nearly sixty and I still think I’m not in bad shape, as I say I still scrub up well!!

I think I make the best of myself, but I know that a my age my health is more important then my looks!!

Gray hairs really don’t bother me sore hips do!!

Pelleas · 28/06/2020 09:47

But, seeking to combat this unhealthy dynamic, by saying that classic good looks do not mean you are the best or most attractive person, is valid I think. And this was the point I was trying to make.

I absolutely agree with that message. My point is that I don't think Dahl conveyed it effectively, and the way he framed it pointed to the fact it wasn't actually what he believed, even if he was trying to pretend he did. He couldn't get away from what people looked like even while trying to say that looks weren't what mattered most.

Gah81 · 28/06/2020 09:48

This is a useful post and instructive responses for me to read. As I head towards 40, I do wonder how I will feel about being perceived as less attractive by the world.

I have taken being pretty for granted but know that it has meant, aside from the male attention and head turning and compliments from strangers etc., a life much easier than it otherwise might have been.

My career is flying: and I think in part that is because the senior men in my profession have always "taken" to me, or people like having a pretty young woman speak on typically "male" subjects at their conference or on TV.

I get given discounts and free things regularly, people stop and listen when I speak (though bloody hard not to as I have a voice which carries for miles!).

I shall miss the attention and the admiring gazes and the special privileges. I trust that I have enough personality, charm and brains to get me through when my outward appearance is no longer enough in itself to grab the attention of the room. Time will tell...

Whysomanyexcuses · 28/06/2020 09:52

I have always had a 'plain' face. Pointed nose, not symetrical at all very lopsided mouth so never had a problem with lose of what I never had... you know nice legs shame about the face..

I mourned the lose of my body - I had a super figure and great legs - middle age spread and several children and that's gone.

justkeepmovingon · 28/06/2020 09:54

Face wise I've always been pretty and never really wanted to be or noticed as I'm a bit of a tomboy growing up so pretty didn't fit me, but it's always just been me, so I'm going to assume I benefited in some way from it, but never used it.

At 45 I've only really just started paying attention to my actually face and what was petite features and good bone structure now just makes me look all spikey and grouchy and witchy. My neck like another poster dominates photos and the bags under my eyes are just there in every photo!!

But here's the thing, in my late 30s I discovered weight training and I now have a better body than I ever did my whole life, so I walk well, stand straight and look super confident.

So I like like a weight training witch 😂

LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 09:55

He couldn't get away from what people looked like even while trying to say that looks weren't what mattered most.

Yes, this is a good point and, as Sheba said, I don't think we should be taking any serious life lessons from Roald Dahl.

However, this one quote did resonate with me and stayed with me, in a positive way for me. I felt reassured that despite my classically not great looks, inner beauty did show. And I honestly think that with some people, who are total shits, (total handsome / pretty shits), it just eminates off them and you don't have to spend long with them before you think ick. Ditto lovely people who aren't good looking. I used to have a best friend who I always thought was extremely beautiful. Someone pointed out that she wasn't once and I was genuinely shocked but lots of people agreed. I thought she was classically pretty. So I do think it can happen, that we see beauty because of personality and our feelings towards someone. Most people think their mothers are beautiful and everyone thinks their children are. This cannot be correct. We are not ALL gorgeous, in the classical sense.

But absolutely, I do take your point that by arguing against beauty being the most important thing, he actually then said beauty is important and he said it would show straight away, which isn't always true. Sometimes it's knowing someone well which shows their inner beauty and shallow people may have dismissed them by then. But I still think it's an argument for looking past perfect features and lovely figure.

Mumoftwo12345 · 28/06/2020 09:59

In the past 5 years I've started feeling really haggard.
Acne has began to plague me like never before, the spots leave dark scars so even when then go they're still there.
I'm sure my nose is growing, it looks enormous and my eyes have sunk back into my head, the dark circles cannot be covered.
I'm feeling really down about it now.
Hate seeing memories from 10 years ago, when I 'thought' I was ugly.

ginghamtablecloths · 28/06/2020 10:02

Dear old mum used to say that if you are beautiful you've got more to lose as you age, whereas we plainer types can 'grow into' our looks iyswim.

At 61 I see my slack jaw in the mirror and sigh a little but I'm alive and well so I don't beat myself up about it. I've got the face of someone who's lived and I have a better perspective on life's problems than when I was younger. I have more self-confidence and don't worry about other people's opinions now. That's not a bad pay-off.

Youcanstay · 28/06/2020 10:02

Well, i guess there is one good thing of being ugly.
Can’t lose what you never had.

LadyPrigsbottom · 28/06/2020 10:05

@Mumoftwo12345; sorry, slight detail here, but have you been checked for rosacea? Just as you mention your nose changing shape and acne.

I have it. It can be controlled with antibiotics and finding what your triggers are, so if you do have it, it might be something worth looking into. It is acne which tends to affect older people rather than teens.

poppyfieldsinmay · 28/06/2020 10:11

@DDIJ
My ex always said I was ugly but on some level I didn't believe him. DC now say I am ugly so I think ex was right. I never had any looks

Your children have picked that up from your Ex. Or. if you put yourself down, from you.

I can absolutely guarantee you that weak pathetic men call their partners 'ugly' to try to make their partners feel psychologically dependent on them. I had an absolutely stunningly beautiful flatemate who told me that her Ex used to tell her she was ugly and no-one else would want her. So, when men say this it really is nothing to do with how the woman looks and everything to do with how the man feels about himself, and how this causes him to need to control and put down his partner.

Pelleas · 28/06/2020 10:12

I don't think we should be taking any serious life lessons from Roald Dahl.

Yes, I agree but it's almost become a sort of bingo card thing (for me) on Mumsnet - any thread where someone is concerned about their lack of looks, how long before someone (meaning well) posts the Roald Dahl quote? And it didn't work for me as an unattractive child - it made me feel worse.

Most people think their mothers are beautiful and everyone thinks their children are. This cannot be correct.

And that's where I think we need to be more realistic. We can't convincingly say that 'looks don't matter' if at the same time we are telling children they are beautiful, even when they're not. And giving ugly people the simplistic message that looks don't matter is setting them up for disappointment - they need to know that the world is a harsher place if (to reduce this to its basic principle) not many people want to have sex with you. The message we give to young people needs to be more nuanced - emphasising the value and importance of other qualities while not denying the existence of beauty-privilege.

aufaitaccompli · 28/06/2020 10:12

I've been invisible all my life. My own fault really. I didn't make the most of myself when I could. In saying that i didn't really receive compliments on my looks or have much interest from men. I was expected to hide my sexuality and sensual side.
Married a shithead who made my life a misery. You could see it in my face and my eyes.

No longer married and very plain but I KNOW I look 'better' than I did.

It's been an uphill struggle all my life to feel attractive and accepted. I'm not sure I'll ever be either, if I'm honest. I sound like a child, but it's how I feel

TheId · 28/06/2020 10:17

I've weirdly had the opposite experience.

I was never considered attractive and never considered myself attractive as a child and young woman. I was clever but not pretty. Pretty was my sister's label. In reality we are both pretty and both clever but that's not what we were told.

I think I am distinctly average. Mousey fine hair, average size12 slightly pear shaped, face a bit too angular. When I was younger I got some male interest but not from the males I fancied. I think I was considered sort of easily attainable by average men. Being a bit too clever did not help matters. Most men do not appear to want to be with a woman who might be more intelligent or successful than them.

In my 40s however I seem to have aged quite well (so far). I have always exercised and I like lifting weights and I have maintained my weight stable. I still have fat thighs but I always did. Yes I have wrinkles and I dye my greying hair but since these were never my best features nothing has been lost. I appear to get a tonne more attention and compliments from men (and women) now. Much more than when I was younger.

I think maybe being healthy and intelligent are more desirable qualities in later life and/ or standards have shifted a bit and eg having a big bum is actually a good thing (terrible thing in the 90s when everyone aspired to be Kate Moss)

SerenDippitty · 28/06/2020 10:20

I was an ugly teenager. Brace, glasses and a bit plump. Then in my late teens early 20s lost the puppy fat and the brace and swapped the glasses for contacts. I was a slim blue eyed brunette with a great figure but boyfriends? Not many. My confidence had been so shredded in my teen years that I had none in my 20s and gave off the wrong vibe. Now I’m nearly 60, a couple of stone heavier but much more confident and happy in my own skin. Still have thick hair and nice skin but wear glasses again and like myself in them. .

Swipe left for the next trending thread