Female friend not invited on stag do

[ConkerGame]

A very close male friend of mine is getting married next year. Whilst I was originally friends with him and consider him a really good friend, I have also become close to his fiancée over time and she has kindly invited me on her hen party. I would never have expected an invite on the stag as hens/stags are always women/men only in our group. I only invited the women on my hen.

DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason. I can’t tell whether she doesn’t make much of an effort with the girlfriends or whether they don’t make one with her (or if it’s a bit of both) but while she meets up with the girls who were originally in the group (like me), she never meets up with the girlfriends of the guys for dinner/lunch etc (like I do). So she hasn’t been invited on the hen like I have.

However, she’s not bothered by that. What she’s annoyed about is that she’s not invited on the stag! It’s men only and going by the previous stags in the group, it will be physically quite intense. They’re a sporty, competitive group who aren’t afraid of getting hurt or hurting one another (think rugby boys, but not!). So e.g. they’ll do some sort of activity that involves hunting each other in teams and (play)fighting each other. And they’re also very heavy drinkers, mainly beer and shots. She’s not a particularly heavy drinker and only likes wine/G&t. She’s not physical at all and would get very upset if someone physically hurt her (fair enough!). So basically she wouldn’t just fit in to the stag like “one of the lads” - she’d stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, things have kicked off as she’s messaged the group (both men and women) WhatsApp complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her. She says she’s a close friend of his and the only reason she’s not invited is because she’s a woman. DFriend rang me really upset as it’s not true at all. He says to be honest he’s not particularly close to her, never spends one on one time with her or anything and just doesn’t want her there. Nothing to do with her being a woman, just (a) he doesn’t like her enough to want her there and (b) knows she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they’ll be doing and will just be a pain.

I really feel for him. I’m a feminist and would be the first to call out sexism if I thought it was there. But in this case I think she’s just being a pain and upsetting DFriend without a real reason. Personally I think she should make more effort with the women and then maybe she wouldn’t feel left out as she would probably be invited on the hen. Don’t really know what to advise DFriend to reply as he can’t really say “I just don’t like you that much” without causing a lot of upset!

AIBU?

[Megatron]

The insults levelled at this woman just because she has male friends!

@Gwenhwyfar I don't agree with the insults but I don't think that's the reason for it really do you?

The 'my boys' thing from an adult woman to adult men is ridiculous but the main reason I think she is unreasonable is that she has What's App'd everyone. If you haven't been invited to something, you don't contact people begging for one and making everyone else feel shit. The stag doesn't want her there and the hen doesn't really know her. I'm not sure what she expects?

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

I’m cringing for her. I can’t bear to read past the first page of comments (Because I agree with them!). She’s made herself look really foolish.

[Andwoooshtheyweregone]

She sounds like a “cool girl” ugh.

[Viviennemary]

She sounds just the type who loves all the male attention. That's what it's all about IMHO.

[Carolbaskinstiger]

I’d love to understand what she was looking to achieve out of sending that text. Firstly she’s alienated probably a fair amount of the “stag do”. Also - why is she so important that she should be invited and not all of the women in the group?

[User8008135]

If she mothers them of course they wouldn't want her there. Who want someone acting like their mum on their stag?

The groom probably finds her mothering annoying and they aren't close, that's why she's not invited. Whereas OP who is actually very close to the groom is not and is going on the hen. That could be seen as sexist but given OP is good friends with the bride now too and happy to go it's good.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Where was it said that she mothers them?

[MildDrPepperAddiction]

Op said she acts like their mum further up.

[Gwenhwyfar]

" I don't agree with the insults but I don't think that's the reason for it really do you?"

Yes, I do. There's been lots and lots of assumptions about women who are friends with men. It's not really about what she put on the whatsapp.

e.g.

"She sounds like a “cool girl” ugh."

The above insulting comment is not about the way she asked for an invitation, is it?

[User8008135]

Gwenhwyfar in OPs update.

[CruellaDeSmile]

I don’t think that there’s necessarily been any cheating but I also wonder at the grooms version of events.

it’s like the whole Boris Johnson/Jennifer Arcuri (sic?) thing.

Good enough/fun enough to socialise with/flirt with/more

but as soon as he had the PM role and wanted to reinvent himself with the posh young wife he was keen to close ranks and put out the unofficial line she was this weird desperate hanger-on he’d never really liked or knew (despite the financial paper trail clearly saying otherwise)

[strawberry2017]

She sounds very much like she's an attention seeker.
I'd tell him to ignore it and if possible you could completely change the conversation to something different in the group.
I'm assuming nobody has replied to her.
Is she likely to bring it up in person when you are all allowed to meet again as a group?

[Antibles]

Of course they don't want a female on the stag do. Stag dos very often involve objectification of females for the purposes of male sexual arousal. Having a female tagging along to witness said objectification of her kind of human in action would embarrass them and ruin their fun.

His words about her not really being a key friend are a handy excuse.

[Carolbaskinstiger]

@Antibles erm I believe that the op said that they are going on an adventure sporting type thing. Not Spearmint Rhino.

[Thehop]

“Hi x. I’m really surprised and sorry to hear you feel that way. It’s a stag do, a chance for the lads to get together and do stuff you won’t even enjoy even if we did want you to come. Hope you feel better soon and get something much more exciting booked in to look forward to, and we’re all looking forward to a dance at the wedding. Get your shoes broken in ha!”

Sympathetic but form

[KentuckyBlueberry]

If she’s not invited she’s not invited. What’s she hoping to get by complaining? Is she hoping to harangue them into an invite? Daft.

That being said, all this ‘a woman can’t possibly go on a stag do!’ and vice versa with hen dos (from many posters) is daft and boring too. I know loads of people who’ve had mixed dos. It’s really not a must to exclude friends of the opposite sex solely on that basis.

[Megatron]

Yes, I do. There's been lots and lots of assumptions about women who are friends with men. It's not really about what she put on the whatsapp.

Well I don't agree with those comments any more than I agree with yours to be honest @Gwenhwyfar. The OP is regarding her sending a message to everyone about not being invited to the stag, the other comments on here at just other people's opinions on that (some of which are unnecessary and not very nice IMO). I'm basing mine on the OP so I think it absolutely is about the WhatsApp message, the other information on there is obviously for background. The key point is that neither the stag nor the hen wants this woman at their events and that's up to them. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[Notredamn]

Oh she's one of those pathetic women who is validated by men only and considers herself much more on a male wavelength as she perceives they're more powerful and it makes her feel so special. She's the sexist one.
She'll soon be friendless.

[Megatron]

@Thehop

“Hi x. I’m really surprised and sorry to hear you feel that way. It’s a stag do, a chance for the lads to get together and do stuff you won’t even enjoy even if we did want you to come. Hope you feel better soon and get something much more exciting booked in to look forward to, and we’re all looking forward to a dance at the wedding. Get your shoes broken in ha!”

Sympathetic but form

I think it's fair to say that most people would be offended if they received a message telling them what they would or wouldn't enjoy. Not sure the 'even if we did want you to come' would make her feel any better.

The stag needs to speak to her himself properly and not message anyway.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Oh she's one of those pathetic women who is validated by men only and considers herself much more on a male wavelength as she perceives they're more powerful and it makes her feel so special. She's the sexist one."

What the F? Based on what?
Megatron - see above. Insults of the woman based on having mainly male friends, nothing more.

[Notredamn]

Based on everything the OP has said, Gwen.

[GallusAlice79]

I am actually mortified for your friend reading this.

I have a large mixed group of friends, and we do loads of things together. But I would never want guys on a hen or vice versa. It's so cringe. It's one event, in a lifetime of many, so in my opinion (and my friend's thankfully) should stay same sex.

[AlternativePerspective]

So, how is this woman choosing to only have male friends any less sexist than the men choosing to only go out with male friends?

At the end of the day she hasn’t been invited. Whether that’s because they want it to be all men or because they just don’t actually like her that much or because they could only accommodate a certain number of people is irrelevant. No-one has to justify why they have or haven’t invited someone to any kind of event.

People are allowed to socialise with others without always inviting the same people along...

She has IMO embarrassed herself and should probably realise that she’s not as big a part of this friendship group as she thought she was.

All this talk of “her boys” is cringeworthy anyway.

She’s not obliged to have female friends if she doesn’t want them, but even if she had female friends those wouldn’t be obliged to invite her either.

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

She's making a big fool of herself, but that's for assuming most things associated with weddings will not be sexist. Unless you have a bride and groom who are both actively resistant to that stuff, are not compelled to run with the herd, and buck most trends normally seen as 'traditional', you'll likely be attending an inherently sexist event.

Stag/hen nights sound like the sort of thing kids do. The idea of their being segregated by sex is thoroughly ridiculous, as if that kind of constraint can be put on friendship. Ignore any of that and you're 'attention-seeking' (see some previous comments). Some women are still handed from father to husband like a fine prize cow, and will happily relinquish their own identities into the bargain. They glibly refer to their 'maiden' name rather than their family name, as if that name is on loan to them from Father until Husband comes along. Such women (not all, but certainly those who seem hellbent on criticising those who make different choices) seem curiously resistant to viewing their either their own identity or that of other women as rightfully theirs.

Your friend is only unreasonable because she's wasting her time pitting herself against this kind of cheerfully competitive conformism. She might as well sit on the beach and order the tide to turn back.

My own and DH's view of all this was 'fuck that noise'. We eloped!

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

Oh she's one of those pathetic women who is validated by men only and considers herself much more on a male wavelength

Perhaps she IS more on a male wavelength. What's pathetic is this kind of ridiculous judgemental attitude about how, and with who, other people choose to spend their time.