Female friend not invited on stag do

[ConkerGame]

A very close male friend of mine is getting married next year. Whilst I was originally friends with him and consider him a really good friend, I have also become close to his fiancée over time and she has kindly invited me on her hen party. I would never have expected an invite on the stag as hens/stags are always women/men only in our group. I only invited the women on my hen.

DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason. I can’t tell whether she doesn’t make much of an effort with the girlfriends or whether they don’t make one with her (or if it’s a bit of both) but while she meets up with the girls who were originally in the group (like me), she never meets up with the girlfriends of the guys for dinner/lunch etc (like I do). So she hasn’t been invited on the hen like I have.

However, she’s not bothered by that. What she’s annoyed about is that she’s not invited on the stag! It’s men only and going by the previous stags in the group, it will be physically quite intense. They’re a sporty, competitive group who aren’t afraid of getting hurt or hurting one another (think rugby boys, but not!). So e.g. they’ll do some sort of activity that involves hunting each other in teams and (play)fighting each other. And they’re also very heavy drinkers, mainly beer and shots. She’s not a particularly heavy drinker and only likes wine/G&t. She’s not physical at all and would get very upset if someone physically hurt her (fair enough!). So basically she wouldn’t just fit in to the stag like “one of the lads” - she’d stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, things have kicked off as she’s messaged the group (both men and women) WhatsApp complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her. She says she’s a close friend of his and the only reason she’s not invited is because she’s a woman. DFriend rang me really upset as it’s not true at all. He says to be honest he’s not particularly close to her, never spends one on one time with her or anything and just doesn’t want her there. Nothing to do with her being a woman, just (a) he doesn’t like her enough to want her there and (b) knows she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they’ll be doing and will just be a pain.

I really feel for him. I’m a feminist and would be the first to call out sexism if I thought it was there. But in this case I think she’s just being a pain and upsetting DFriend without a real reason. Personally I think she should make more effort with the women and then maybe she wouldn’t feel left out as she would probably be invited on the hen. Don’t really know what to advise DFriend to reply as he can’t really say “I just don’t like you that much” without causing a lot of upset!

AIBU?

[Notredamn]

Just as I thought, OP. One of the men need to spell it out to her by either telling her straight or ignoring her outburst. If it comes from anyone else, she'll just see it as an attempt to come between her and 'her boys'. Lol.

[Zenithbear]

I know someone like this.
She's an attention seeker, she wants all the men to fancy her and imagines that they do. She'll flirt with them and pretend it was the other way round.
She also thinks all the women are jealous of her. She won't hang around with women as her need isn't fulfilled.
The reality is she's really insecure and no one likes her.

[CruellaDeSmile]

I’d also be quite wary of “wendying” - if she feels rejected she may start trying to use the women to socially access the men again?

So paying attention to mutual female “friends” she’d ignore otherwise, and then asking if they want to gatecrash the men’s events and start telling the men “so and so wants to come”.

[KentuckyBlueberry]

I thought wendying was bitchily pushing someone out of a group?

[Andwoooshtheyweregone]

Someone linked a cosmopolitan article on this kind of “cool girl” on a thread ages ago and I can’t find it but it sums up this sort of relationship dynamic perfectly!

[KentuckyBlueberry]

Just curious OP, are you on the south coast..?!? I ask just because of the adverts I’m getting in this page related to stag & hen dos!

[Yesmate]

She sounds tedious. Call her out on how ridiculous she is being or put it out of your mind.

[CruellaDeSmile]

Yeh I think a version of wendying is using the other person to gain access to social groups

If the “friend” is now completely being ignored/dismissed by the men (they’re now at the stage where they just don’t care) she’ll start looking for the weakest link, chumming up with the women who the men DO like and respect and have time for and using them to get entry back into the social groups

[Coronabegone]

She's being ridiculous!

[theendoftheendoftheend]

YANBU I was invited on my friends Stag, I didn't go as I was hugely pregnant, but we'd been friends for a long time. I didn't ask for an invite, how rude!

[PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock]

@CruellaDeSmile

That update kind of makes more sense.

The trouble with that domineering/matriarch/queen bee/organiser role is it ages badly.

Unless they’re loaded or incredibly well-connected and successful, others just find them annoying and controlling and attention-seeking after a certain age.

Emotionally normal guys want to date and partner up and socialise with women of their choice.

Either way she doesn’t seem that nice so I’d personally stay well clear of this car crash - grey rock her a bit, make up excuses (Coronavirussy ones etc )

If she’s got form for dishonesty she may see things like your conversation with your friend as “you telling him what to do”.

Either someone needs to tell her to fuck off (let’s face it the blokes probably aren’t going to do) or she’s not going to let this go.

Yy re ageing badly. That specific role becomes redundant once a critical mass of the group start partnering up, and even if they haven't it starts to be at least fairly pathetic by the mid 20s.

[Iwalkinmyclothing]

I'm not going to comment on the steady drip of information about how awful this woman is, but the general "stag dos are for men only and hen dos for women only" thing is silly and I can see why someone who is close friends with a person about to get married would be pissed off for being excluded from the event because they were the wrong sex. You say that's not the reason she isn't invited but you made clear in your op that stag/ hen dos are single sex only among your friendship group and to be honest that baffles me.

[thatmustbenigelwiththebrie]

Oh God. I have a friend like this. She is unbearable sometimes. A few of our male friends went away together on a kayaking trip. She turned up at the station on the day and invited herself along. They were all very miffed about it.

[KentuckyBlueberry]

Agree it’s silly @Iwalk

Clearly in this case they didn’t want her there anyway (although OP wasn’t invited either so presumably there was a sex-related aspect to that).

But this “sorry my hands are tied, it’s the rules” thing is a bit daft to me.

[PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock]

The major issue here seems to be the groom not liking her very much. Perhaps his hands wouldn't be so tied if he actually valued her presence enough to want her there.

[ConkerGame]

Ok yes having thought about it, we do have a “sexist” practice in our group of doing separate hen and stag nights. But I guess it’s never been seen as a problem as everyone else in the group is very happy with it. Whilst I’m better friends with some of the men than some of the women, I know what the guys are like when it’s them on their own and I don’t want to be involved in that! Equally the men would be very bored at our hen weekends!

I think the problem here is that the groom also genuinely finds this girl annoying so wouldn’t want her there even if she was a guy. So for example if I had raised with him that I was upset at not being invited, He would think I was being strange given the custom in our group but he would also probably be kind about it and say something like “I’m sorry you’re upset - you are an important friend to me but this one really is just for the lads and I don’t think you’d enjoy it anyway. Let’s do a separate dinner just us to celebrate too?” But then I wouldn’t raise it in the first place! Whereas with her, he wouldn’t even be interested in doing something separately with her and he doesn’t think she “deserves” to be upset about it as they aren’t close, so he feels bitter that she’s using the sexism argument when actually that’s not the sole reason he doesn’t want her there. If he decided to have a mixed-sex stag she wouldn’t necessarily make the cut if there was a restriction on numbers!

[Zhampagne]

Single-sex stag and hen parties are still the norm for the vast majority of people.

[GerkinsAteMe]

She sounds pushy and a nightmare BUT it is also the men’s/groom/grooms man’s responsibility to communicate and be assertive with her directly rather than get mutual female acquaintances to be involved?

“Dear C,

I’m sorry you’re upset but I don’t feel we’re close enough as friends - and haven’t been for a while - for you to join my stag night. This isn’t open to discussion or negotiation.”

It’s like he doesn’t want to be the target of the pushy woman’s anger, and to come across as the nice guy.

But there’s nothing a female friend can say or suggest that he can’t.

What I’d be worried about if I was forced to play “piggy-in-the middle” is that the groom would be expecting me to get involved and “problem solve” the situation and then step back if pushy woman goes psycho?

Really I’d just pretend I had work stress and not engage apart from to enjoy attending the hen night/wedding.

[Northernparent68]

@thatmustbenigelwiththebrie

Oh God. I have a friend like this. She is unbearable sometimes. A few of our male friends went away together on a kayaking trip. She turned up at the station on the day and invited herself along. They were all very miffed about it.

What did the men do ?