Female friend not invited on stag do

[ConkerGame]

A very close male friend of mine is getting married next year. Whilst I was originally friends with him and consider him a really good friend, I have also become close to his fiancée over time and she has kindly invited me on her hen party. I would never have expected an invite on the stag as hens/stags are always women/men only in our group. I only invited the women on my hen.

DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason. I can’t tell whether she doesn’t make much of an effort with the girlfriends or whether they don’t make one with her (or if it’s a bit of both) but while she meets up with the girls who were originally in the group (like me), she never meets up with the girlfriends of the guys for dinner/lunch etc (like I do). So she hasn’t been invited on the hen like I have.

However, she’s not bothered by that. What she’s annoyed about is that she’s not invited on the stag! It’s men only and going by the previous stags in the group, it will be physically quite intense. They’re a sporty, competitive group who aren’t afraid of getting hurt or hurting one another (think rugby boys, but not!). So e.g. they’ll do some sort of activity that involves hunting each other in teams and (play)fighting each other. And they’re also very heavy drinkers, mainly beer and shots. She’s not a particularly heavy drinker and only likes wine/G&t. She’s not physical at all and would get very upset if someone physically hurt her (fair enough!). So basically she wouldn’t just fit in to the stag like “one of the lads” - she’d stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, things have kicked off as she’s messaged the group (both men and women) WhatsApp complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her. She says she’s a close friend of his and the only reason she’s not invited is because she’s a woman. DFriend rang me really upset as it’s not true at all. He says to be honest he’s not particularly close to her, never spends one on one time with her or anything and just doesn’t want her there. Nothing to do with her being a woman, just (a) he doesn’t like her enough to want her there and (b) knows she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they’ll be doing and will just be a pain.

I really feel for him. I’m a feminist and would be the first to call out sexism if I thought it was there. But in this case I think she’s just being a pain and upsetting DFriend without a real reason. Personally I think she should make more effort with the women and then maybe she wouldn’t feel left out as she would probably be invited on the hen. Don’t really know what to advise DFriend to reply as he can’t really say “I just don’t like you that much” without causing a lot of upset!

AIBU?

[Itsjustabitofbanter]

@CallmeAngelina I agree. There’s obviously rare exceptions, but only time I’ve personally heard of the opposite sex going on a do is a gay man invited to a hen.

[MissBaskinIfYoureNasty]

She sounds like one of those "women just don't like me for some reason.." women. Leave her to deal with it.

[Carolbaskinstiger]

Is she quite young? I imagine she’s in for a shock when “her boys” basically start dropping her as they have other priorities (e.g their wives and children).

[sonjadog]

I suggest he replies something along the lines of "Sorry, the stag is for close friends only". It gets the message across loud and clear but slightly less brutal than "I don't like you that much".

[LillianBland]

I’m a ardent feminist but I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with stag and hen parties being sex segregated. Men and women are both entitled to have time in single sex groups and it does change the dynamics if there’s one of the opposite sex, in the group. She’s making a fool out of herself.

[Daisy12Maisie]

A close friend of mine (tom) is intending to propose to his partner. She knows. It's kind of a mutual thing. I wouldnt consider for a second I would be invited on the stag.
If anything me and mutual friends also female and close to him will meet him and his partner for a celebratory drink before or after the stag.
He just happens to have lots of female friends. I havent met her yet as she lives some distance away so I definitely won't be invited on the hen do. There are ways for your friend to show her support without actually going along to the stag do...

[Pelleas]

I don't think he should reply or engage at all.

He doesn't want her there - enough said. It's up to her if she thinks it's worth ending the friendship over.

[EmeraldShamrock]

Leave her to it. She is making a massive fool of herself. Scarlett

[Ellisandra]

I have a male friend who is in a wheelchair and cannot drink due to medication. He has never been excluded from stags, because he can’t paintball and get pissed. It doesn’t change the dynamic at all. So that’s bollocks.

But it’s not sexist - he just doesn’t want her there. That’s fine.

She sounds irritating, from the “my boys” shite.

Tbh the only thing sexist in your post is you saying she should have made more of an effort with the women. No - women don’t have to make effort with other women just because they’re women.

But this stag do thing is not her choice and she’s bloody rude to complain!

[HeddaGarbled]

Ha, she’s been hoisted by her her own sexist petard. I bet she says she prefers men to women because “women are so bitchy”.

[WinnieWonder]

It's not surprising she's not invited. She's not a man. Ask her does she identify as being a man?

Agree, stay out of it!

[ROZRAX]

One of my best friends is male (he also gave me away on my wedding day). I didn’t attend his stag do, didn’t expect to and went on his wife’s hen. He didn’t attend my hen do but went on my husbands stag.
Instead to recognise our friendship and the occasion we both arranged days out separate to the stag/hen- around activities etc each other enjoyed. If she’s that close to this this wouldn’t be an unusually suggestion?

[ImaginaryCat]

Many years ago I went on my mate's stag do. Most of his male friends were dicks, the kind who'd ditch each other for the chance of a shag and their 'banter' was just bullying. He wanted me there so he knew he had one genuine friend who had his back.

We had a fun night, and the boys were very grateful I was there as it made us technically a mixed party, so we got into a couple of places which would have turned away all male groups. But it was weird, I did change the dynamic and I felt a bit awkward when the alcohol caused them to drop any pretence and speak like misogynistic knob ends.

[lemmathelemmin]

Do you think they're getting a stripper/prostitutes and he doesnt think she can be a part of in that way?

[ExtraOnions]

I’ve been on hen do’s and men have been there, it seems to be getting increasingly common.

If she hangs out with the group, and the whole group have been invited to the celebration and she hasn’t, and she’s the only woman, I can see why it would look sexist ... it doesn’t just look sexist, it is sexist.

It’s up to him who he invited, to be honest a weekend full of pissed up men indulging in some kind of cock measuring contest sounds like my idea of hell.

I’m wondering how he “knows” she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they want to do, and that she would be a “pain” ... not only sexist, but also a clairvoyant.

So “she should make more of an effort with the women so she doesn’t feel left out” why? This all seems a bit odd, maybe she just prefers the company of her male friends, and doesn’t feel the need to split things on gender lines.

How about he says “sorry you are upset, and sorry you feel left out, I only ever planned for this to be a trip for men, and you are not a man, therefore not invited” - that’s the honest answer .... you can all try to change the narrative as much as you like to suit your “we are not sexist” agenda, but just be honest.

He needs to own his decision.

[TinyPigeon]

Yes, we live in a sexist society for those who haven't noticed- it's is a sexist custom. That doesn't make this groom any more sexist than the rest of them.
(catch me later on racism)

[Carlottacoffee]

She probably feels really embarrassed that they didn’t see her as part of their group after all. She didn’t invest time with the girls as she preferred the lads company. Tough shit.

I can guarantee the lads watsap group will be saying ‘fuck that’ and worse.

Stay out of it. They are big enough figure this out by themselves

[WinnieWonder]

@HeddaGarbled indeed! a woman I know who said this to me, then later shunned me for 4 months, quite icily, because I defended the tiniest tiniest boundary (ie, please don't misrepresent my beliefs) and she was fawning over everybody else in the group while simultaneously treating me like a GHOST. And it went around in my memory, how she didn't bother going to her school reunion because she went to a girls school and she preferred men. Some women are just fuckin blind to their own misogyny.

[Lifeisforliving123]

Sounds a bit like the drama that unfolded on love island with lucie been the "my boys" how old are u it's all sounding very childish. Leave them to it but invite her to the hen

[Itsjustabitofbanter]

@sonjadog I think something like that is a good idea. It’ll actually make her stop and think about what she’s doing, when she realises she’s made no effort to be friends with the girls and even ‘her’ boys aren’t actually that close to her. If anyone’s sexist it’s her for basing her friendships on sex

[Carlottacoffee]

@lemmathelemmin

Do you think they're getting a stripper/prostitutes and he doesnt think she can be a part of in that way?

This doesn’t necessarily have to be the reason.

My friends husband had a habit of turning up when we had gone out for drinks as a group of girls. It did change the dynamic. Plus he seemed to be centre of attention all night he loved it.

[WinnieWonder]

ps, being a feminist doesn' tmake this any more complicated in my view.

I agree with the idea to send a text to say hi, my stag do is for men, catch up later'' no apology, no explanation. Jesus, it's clear enough isn't it.

How can we fight for female only spaces if the uninitiated are fighting to be included in a stag do. Face Palm

[thecatsthecats]

To be honest, I'd loathe to be pigeon holed with the girls, as I was with my husband's friend group when I moved to the city.

Not because I hate girls, but because I got on with some of the girls and some of the boys better than some of the boys and some of the girls.

If your group didn't pigeon hole itself so strongly into girls and boys, then she wouldn't have to pick a side, would she?

Lockdown has thrown this into sharp relief, because our local friend group set up a WhatsApp group with just the girls to arrange zoom get togethers. But a couple of the girls don't come at all, whilst some of the guys have been in since day one. I feel I know them a lot better now. But the group is still the women only, including a couple I haven't spoken to in 3 months now!

[Carolbaskinstiger]

@TinyPigeon so are hen do’s also a sexist custom?

[WinnieWonder]

@Carlottacoffee I hate that too, when friends' husbands show up. It totally changes the dynamic. It has to be all about them, being conscious not to leave them excluded. Conscious the conversation might be considered too emotional or trivial, feeling the need to be ambassadors for a group of women together. And then thinking offs! Just go home mike/dave/steve/pete