Female friend not invited on stag do

[ConkerGame]

A very close male friend of mine is getting married next year. Whilst I was originally friends with him and consider him a really good friend, I have also become close to his fiancée over time and she has kindly invited me on her hen party. I would never have expected an invite on the stag as hens/stags are always women/men only in our group. I only invited the women on my hen.

DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason. I can’t tell whether she doesn’t make much of an effort with the girlfriends or whether they don’t make one with her (or if it’s a bit of both) but while she meets up with the girls who were originally in the group (like me), she never meets up with the girlfriends of the guys for dinner/lunch etc (like I do). So she hasn’t been invited on the hen like I have.

However, she’s not bothered by that. What she’s annoyed about is that she’s not invited on the stag! It’s men only and going by the previous stags in the group, it will be physically quite intense. They’re a sporty, competitive group who aren’t afraid of getting hurt or hurting one another (think rugby boys, but not!). So e.g. they’ll do some sort of activity that involves hunting each other in teams and (play)fighting each other. And they’re also very heavy drinkers, mainly beer and shots. She’s not a particularly heavy drinker and only likes wine/G&t. She’s not physical at all and would get very upset if someone physically hurt her (fair enough!). So basically she wouldn’t just fit in to the stag like “one of the lads” - she’d stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, things have kicked off as she’s messaged the group (both men and women) WhatsApp complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her. She says she’s a close friend of his and the only reason she’s not invited is because she’s a woman. DFriend rang me really upset as it’s not true at all. He says to be honest he’s not particularly close to her, never spends one on one time with her or anything and just doesn’t want her there. Nothing to do with her being a woman, just (a) he doesn’t like her enough to want her there and (b) knows she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they’ll be doing and will just be a pain.

I really feel for him. I’m a feminist and would be the first to call out sexism if I thought it was there. But in this case I think she’s just being a pain and upsetting DFriend without a real reason. Personally I think she should make more effort with the women and then maybe she wouldn’t feel left out as she would probably be invited on the hen. Don’t really know what to advise DFriend to reply as he can’t really say “I just don’t like you that much” without causing a lot of upset!

AIBU?

[peardrops1]

I find the single-sex element of stag and hen dos really weird and outdated. I had some of my male friends at my hen, and my DH had some of his female friends at his stag. However, I have to say that the 'her boys' thing sounds SUPER annoying. Also, I think she has to accept that it's a cultural norm in our society (for now) to have single sex hen and stag dos. One of my close friends didn't invite me on his stag, and I was inwardly a little hurt, but I also got why, and obv never brought it up!

[peardrops1]

But I really hope eventually single sex stags and hens are consigned to history, where they belong...

[Notredamn]

Marie and yet here is the OP's mutual friend who considers herself so much on a perceived male level that she's kidded herself that she's entitled to a stag do invite. Coolgirlin' hell! I'll 'judge' such women all I want.

[PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock]

Women who make a thing about having better male than female friends are such a bore.

[Cheeeeislifenow]

I bet she has always been "one of the boys" and "women have always been bitchy to her" and of course, "I just get on better with men".

I think she is embarrassing herself and it's super cringe.

[LillianBland]

@peardrops1

But I really hope eventually single sex stags and hens are consigned to history, where they belong...

Why? Seriously. What harm is it actually doing, permitting men and women to have single sex get togethers? It would be different if they were making business deals, such as those made in old boys network clubs, and women were losing out. It’s a celebration. Why is there such a desperation to force people to share all single sex occasions?

[StarScream22]

I went on my brothers stag do. Didn’t realise this wasn’t normal??

[Gwenhwyfar]

"So, how is this woman choosing to only have male friends any less sexist than the men choosing to only go out with male friends?"

Tending to have male friends is not the same as actually excluding someone for being a woman.
It's the difference between a man who usually plays golf with his male friends and one who says only men can join his golf club.

[Zhampagne]

She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls.

I know a woman who is like this, and considers herself a sort of mother hen to her male friends from university. She used to make a point of taking their new girlfriends aside and warning them never to hurt one of 'her boys' because they would 'have her to answer to'. Said men are now pushing fifty and she still refers to them using weird baby names which only she uses - 'Tom-Tom', 'Marky' etc. It is a very strange dynamic.

[areallthenamesusedup]

I would suggest to DF to say to her...."sorry you feel left out, there were lots of people I wanted to invite to my stag do, but decided only to invite people I see on a one to one basis too as a way of limiting numbers. (you said he doesn't hang out with her on a one to one basis). Looking forward to catching up at the wedding"

She sounds like really hard work

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

@Gwenhwyfar

"So, how is this woman choosing to only have male friends any less sexist than the men choosing to only go out with male friends?"

Tending to have male friends is not the same as actually excluding someone for being a woman.
It's the difference between a man who usually plays golf with his male friends and one who says only men can join his golf club.

I don’t think it’s sexist. It’s not a job interview.
He wants to have people who he feels comfortable to be around at his stag. She isn’t one of them.
How would you feel if a woman wanted to have a “ladies night” of pampering, wine etc and a male friends kicked off about not being invited because he was “special”.
People’s boundaries are not there to be fought and questioned on socialising. You get to invite whoever you want to your social events.

[WeAllHaveWings]

@peardrops1

But I really hope eventually single sex stags and hens are consigned to history, where they belong...

If someone wants to have a "party" with male and female friends together before they are married go for it. If someone as in this thread, wants a hen or stag do, which by definition are all male or female occasions, then that needs to be respected too.

Single sex occasions, formal or informal, have their own very enjoyable dynamics, there is absolutely no reason they need to be consigned to history. Do you want to ban all single sex nights out?

[KentuckyBlueberry]

Oh she's one of those pathetic women who is validated by men only and considers herself much more on a male wavelength

You definitely do get these sorts of people (internalised sexism) and I reckon a lot of women go though a phase of this in their teens / early 20s.

Some people also just have a lot of friends of the opposite sex, not by design, just how it has worked out. My partner has a lot of female friends (but also plenty of male friends) and I can kind of see how female friendship (I realise that’s a massive generalisation) suits him. He’s very emotionally literate and not at all into that certain narrow style of ‘lad’ stuff. I’ve got quite a mixed group of friends, and as well as close female friends grew up socialising with big groups of boys/young guys, just through circumstance (our home was full of them). I would never consider myself ‘one of the “lads”’ (stupid phrase used by idiots imo) and find people who say “I don’t get on with women” irritating.

But I think your experience does shape your personal style, comfort zone (what’s familiar) and who you gravitate towards. Not making an effort to get on with women is lame, however having mostly male friends doesn’t automatically make you a dick! Just as only having female friends doesn’t automatically make you suspect either.

This particular woman does sound like a dick though.

[PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock]

There's a distinction between happening to have more male friends than female while just getting on with things, and having more male friends than female and regarding this as some kind of important personality trait meriting frequent acknowledgment.

[KentuckyBlueberry]

Agree @PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock

There is definitely a type who does this. Tedious.

[ScrapThatThen]

Someone needs to say I'm sure you would have been invited if you were wanted there, but as not I think you are being presumptuous. If he says it's because of the activities then that looks more like the sexism he is being accused of, although I would support his right to have a single sex gathering.

[Tootletum]

Women like that are a bit vain and selfish, IMO. If she's really such a lad, she won't mind a bit of plain speaking, surely. So he should just tell her he's invited his close friends and she's not one of them. End of.

[justkeepmovingon]

My best friend is a guy, he had a stag do and invited my husband, I was a bit 🙄 but I totally 100% understood and and out of respect for all the the stag party, my best friends future wife and the general rules around stag dos I was able to keep my thoughts to myself.

Yes I felt a bit sad and left out when I was getting all the texts from the group on the stag about all the fun they were having over a long weekend it sounded like such a blast - I did feel excluded and I did get an invite to the hen party which was very very different and very gentle in comparison.

But I was so so happy my best mate had a stag party to remember he enjoyed every moment and I'm not a dickhead who pushed my own thought into him at that occasion.

He did also say he wished I could of come, but I reassured him it wasn't the right thing to do.

She needs to try and understand this and be a bit more grown up and if he really is her best friend she would understand and be happy for him to be having what he wants and not making this about her.

[WeeMadArthur]

Only hanging out with the men reminds me of this...

[MinnieMountain]

If the groom doesn't want her there, she needs to accept it.

Stag/hen dos are supposed to be fun. I didn't invite BIL's then DP to my hen do because she was hard work.

[MitziK]

[quote WinnieWonder]@HeddaGarbled indeed! a woman I know who said this to me, then later shunned me for 4 months, quite icily, because I defended the tiniest tiniest boundary (ie, please don't misrepresent my beliefs) and she was fawning over everybody else in the group while simultaneously treating me like a GHOST. And it went around in my memory, how she didn't bother going to her school reunion because she went to a girls school and she preferred men. Some women are just fuckin blind to their own misogyny.[/quote]
I don't go to school reunions because they consist entirely of the girls I went to school with. And they were utter cunts to me for five years, largely because they saw me as different to them. They could have still been nice to me even if I didn't have anything more in common with them than my sex and age, but they weren't. The boys, however, were nice, there were things we shared an interest in, we could talk or have a laugh - and the ones that didn't were either oblivious to my existence or were just pleasant.


It isn't me who has a problem with misogyny showing, it was them.


Wouldn't catch me demanding to be included in a party invite, though. Or smoozing up to wives and girlfriends just because I'm not 'supposed' to be friends with men, they're just supposed to be a means of finding further female company or some such shit like that.

[mencken]

it is all about common interests. I'm not into makeup, fashion, handbags, reality TV, spectator sport, shopping, ball games etc etc. I don't pick my friends by their genitalia, but if they are really into any of the above we won't have much in common.

BTW I had a mixed-sex group of friends at my 'slag' do, about 30 years ago. A pub meal without any silly games or anyone ending up tied to a lamppost. Great night out. (even if there is someone on the photo now who I don't recognise at all!)

[DisobedientHamster]

It's his party. He doesn't want her there. That's all there is to it. It's immature to cry foul to all and sundry because you don't get invited to someone else's party. I'd just ignore her, no point in engaging, she'll just find something else to argue about.

[MyShinyWhiteTeeth]

I've known a woman like this. She also had the unique cutesy names for 'the boys' in our activity group but mostly they were Babes or Honey. She got hounded out of the group by one of the group members' new girlfriend, who lost her temper one time and just let rip.

The woman was very upset her boyfriend didn't back her up. She made a big deal over what the new girlfriend had said and refused to go out with the group if she was going to be there. She planned a few things excluding parts of the group. They were dull and people made alternative plans inviting everyone. We lost her and her partner from the group for a while but he came back when they started to not get along and then split up a few years later.

The new girlfriend was very confrontational in her words but didn't say anything out of order. She objected to the proprietary manner this unknown woman had over her boyfriend and didn't find it acceptable.

The whole group dynamic changed afterwards and it became more relaxed although the new girlfriend was very much the dominant partner and so outspoken. She seemed to get everything into the open and dealt with there and then rather than let things fester.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason."

Sounds to me that she doesn't see herself as one of the lads, but as their Queen. She's being ridiculous, expecting to be invited to a Stag Do that's going to consist of stuff-she-doesn't-do (rough sport, heavy drinking etc.). Almost like she wants to cramp their style and make herself the centre of somebody else's party.

I wouldn't invite her to my party either.