Female friend not invited on stag do

[ConkerGame]

A very close male friend of mine is getting married next year. Whilst I was originally friends with him and consider him a really good friend, I have also become close to his fiancée over time and she has kindly invited me on her hen party. I would never have expected an invite on the stag as hens/stags are always women/men only in our group. I only invited the women on my hen.

DFriend’s and my mutual female friend has always considered herself one of the “lads” (I’m not to sure why as she’s actually not very “laddy” at all!). She always calls the boys in the group “her boys” and says she feels closer to them than the girls. She has a boyfriend so she’s not after the guys or anything, just seems to want to hang out with them more than the girls for some reason. I can’t tell whether she doesn’t make much of an effort with the girlfriends or whether they don’t make one with her (or if it’s a bit of both) but while she meets up with the girls who were originally in the group (like me), she never meets up with the girlfriends of the guys for dinner/lunch etc (like I do). So she hasn’t been invited on the hen like I have.

However, she’s not bothered by that. What she’s annoyed about is that she’s not invited on the stag! It’s men only and going by the previous stags in the group, it will be physically quite intense. They’re a sporty, competitive group who aren’t afraid of getting hurt or hurting one another (think rugby boys, but not!). So e.g. they’ll do some sort of activity that involves hunting each other in teams and (play)fighting each other. And they’re also very heavy drinkers, mainly beer and shots. She’s not a particularly heavy drinker and only likes wine/G&t. She’s not physical at all and would get very upset if someone physically hurt her (fair enough!). So basically she wouldn’t just fit in to the stag like “one of the lads” - she’d stick out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, things have kicked off as she’s messaged the group (both men and women) WhatsApp complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her. She says she’s a close friend of his and the only reason she’s not invited is because she’s a woman. DFriend rang me really upset as it’s not true at all. He says to be honest he’s not particularly close to her, never spends one on one time with her or anything and just doesn’t want her there. Nothing to do with her being a woman, just (a) he doesn’t like her enough to want her there and (b) knows she wouldn’t want to do any of the stuff they’ll be doing and will just be a pain.

I really feel for him. I’m a feminist and would be the first to call out sexism if I thought it was there. But in this case I think she’s just being a pain and upsetting DFriend without a real reason. Personally I think she should make more effort with the women and then maybe she wouldn’t feel left out as she would probably be invited on the hen. Don’t really know what to advise DFriend to reply as he can’t really say “I just don’t like you that much” without causing a lot of upset!

AIBU?

complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her

Either he replies - on this special occasion I can live with that 🤣, then ignore

Or just ignore and tell his friends to ignore.

I've been to a been to one hen do with a man there and him trying to be one of the girls ruined the whole night.

@thecatsthecats I see the point you're making that ''picking a side'' isn't good but it's one night, and the bottom line is she's a woman.
Another bottom line is that she seems so much more open to having fun with the lads and closed off to having fun with the women. That's her loss really.

You say you would call out sexism if you thought it was there but further up you say that it’s only males on stag doo’s and females on hen doo’s and that you’d never expect to go on a stag doo- but that’s presumably because you’re a woman? So there is an element of sexism within that context.

I don’t hold issue with it at all personally and I believe it is generally men that go on stag doo’s and generally only women on hen doo’s. That’s also my experience of it.

My question would be, if you’re that close to him I wonder why he hasn’t invited you? If he hasn’t not invited her on the back of her being female and it’s simply because they aren’t that close, then surely he could invite you as you are close?

She (your other friend) just sounds like a pain in the a*se to be honest and he simply doesn’t want her there and that fine.

Reminds me of someone bringing their dh to a hen do at a spa. It was awkward.

In this case, it’s irrelevant whether the complainer is a man, woman or buffalo. They aren’t invited!

Also I prefer it men only women only 😬

Is he sexist for also not inviting his mum on this stag do? His sister? Also am sure the bride is his best friend- why isn’t she coming?

She sounds a bit daft if she can't see why she's not invited. A stag is a Male deer after all, she should let boys be boys this time.

It isn't anything to do with sexism - if they'd wanted her there she'd have been invited. She is hurt because she saw herself occupying a special place in this group of men and can't believe they don't want her on the stag do. She probably had visions of going as the only woman and getting lots of attention. It's always painful to discover the image you have of yourself doesn't match up to reality. But she'll make things worse by making a fuss about it - the best thing she can do is re-evaluate her friendships.

@ExtraOnions, you tend to know your friends, so he will know that she won't like what's planned. Someone who isn't a drinker and thinks of other adults as 'her boys', isn't someone you want on a piss up. Likewise if you want a pad session etc, you don't want someone there who isn't into it.

My DD does Muay Thai, she trains with men. But there's an occasional session that she doesn't go to because they want to fully go for it and she would be injured. They don't care if they injure each other, or get injured. We couldn't have mixed rugby for the same reasons.

My other DD did a group holiday and they didn't really want one particular person to go, but didn't stop them. Yes they were a pain, because they didn't only not want to drink and stay out until 4am, they wanted everyone to listen to why the others shouldn't be doing that. It put a downer on every night until there was a blow up.

I don’t think it’s about her being female at all. I had a very close male friend at my hen do and we all had so much fun! BUT, he has always been in our ‘girly group’ since our Uni days and is a very good friend of mine. Other males weren’t invited as I’m not close to them and didn’t want to care if they found the activities fun or not. My male friend that attended was no different to us girls and fully joined in with everything.
This girl is being very selfish and making it about her being female, when in reality they just don’t want her there which is fair enough.

Stay out of it. Your female friend is being very rude.

The “my boys” thing would annoy the hell out of me., and if she’s going down the sexist route a comment like that could be considered sexist.

If your DH is included in “her boys” I’d call her out every time. She’s sounds extremely self centered and thick skinned.

Her “boys” probably don’t like her as much as she thinks they do.

I don't see it as sexist but I can see how she might interpret it that way if she sees herself (however erroneously) as 'one of them', but where she really puts herself in the wrong is complaining about it, and worse still complaining about it publicly on the whatsapp group. At that point it stops being about her feelings being hurt and starts being about trying to manipulate your mutual friend the groom, which gets her zero sympathy from me.

How he handles this will have ramifications for the atmosphere in the whole group, so rather than calling her out on her horrible attitude I think he should just explain that he knows she wouldn't enjoy whatever they've got planned and leave it at that.

"almost every man and woman on this planet is sexist then for having all male or female stag and hen do’s."

Not everyone does. I've been on a mixed stag night. It as a dinner though rather than a trip round Amsterdam's red light district or a club with a stripper.

@Carolbaskinstiger

Is she quite young? I imagine she’s in for a shock when “her boys” basically start dropping her as they have other priorities (e.g their wives and children).

That happens whether you have male or female friends.

Don't get involved

"Tbh the only thing sexist in your post is you saying she should have made more of an effort with the women. No - women don’t have to make effort with other women just because they’re women."

Definitely this.

Has anyone from the group replied?

Tbh the only thing sexist in your post is you saying she should have made more of an effort with the women. No - women don’t have to make effort with other women just because they’re women
I get the point the OP was making. It is a big friendship group but the woman has relied on only being pals with the guys instead of being friends with all.

She hasn't handled it well but as the bride I invited my then fiancés female friends to my hen and the female partners of his other friends, some didn't come but most did. One I didn't even like but it's a nice thing to include as many as possible....

"Her boys"

Urgh. This type of thing is normally said by women who can't function without having Male attention. And yes, they normally say things like "women don't normally like me" or "women are such bitches".

Any women who can't see the strong value in female friendship and put down their own sex with generic labels means a VERY wide swerve from me. I've met some women like this in my time.

I hate stag dos and their pathetic activities.

Way too many involve life threatening amounts of alcohol, and heavy weaponry. Frankly, I want nothing to do with people who enjoy that kind of rubbish.

And way, way too many involve the stag and his cohorts having sex with prostitutes - how is that starting off a loving and faithful marriage well?

complaining that DFriend and his best man are being sexist by not inviting her

I actually see this point. I had a very close male friend who was like a brother to me. When he got married I wasnt invited to the stag due to being female and had to go to the hen do. I didnt know his wife to be at all well and she never particularly liked me (he told me she was always jealous of me despite the fact I was never attracted to him). I have to admit I was very, very hurt- he was my friend, not her, and it seemed ridiculous that I couldn't come and support my friend simply because I was female.
I also agree that people shouldn't be forced to spend time with each other just because they are the same gender. I also say that as someone who has many wonderful female friends so I'm definitely not the type of girl to proudly proclaim that she doesnt "get on" with other women. My female friends are like my insides and I adore the bones of them.

But that doesnt mean I wasnt hurt that I couldn't attend my male friend's stag do....

@Gwenhwyfar fair point - however I think she’s very much escalating this process along with who she deems “her boys”.
She sounds like someone who has a strangely proprietary attitude towards them. If her and the groom don’t ever even meet on a one to one basis - her behaviour is so incredibly weird, and to be called sexist for not inviting her on a group WhatsApp group will most likely alienate everyone on it.

I have been on a stag do but it was a rural pub with lots of farmers and real ale. My long standing friend who I helped through his divorce and went out to lunch with every week at work and was and am really close to was marrying. He has had cancer and for the last couple of years I am the one he speaks to when worried for his wife and child. He has also become good friends with DH. He is the little brother I always wanted but never got.

This is very different. I game which means I do hang out though online with lots of men, just purely because they will go on voice comms. I do sometimes meet women and of this maybe a quarter are really weird about it and openly hostile to me. There is a term used, Highlander it means there can be only one. By being the only one it makes them special. This isn’t about being a tomboy or anything like that and preferring pursuits that are viewed as being more male. I don’t need it pointed out that it is incredibly sexist to view pursuits as more male and female and whilst I have known women rugby players and boxers and men who bake and sew there is still a huge gender imbalance as to what people do.

This is entirely about her having to be the centre of attention amongst a male group. The fact that she has now pointed it out shows she is really stupid.