... to wonder why some people think there's no white privilege?

[IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme]

Of course there is. Why do people correlate white privilege with economic opportunities and financial status?

Privilege is the same thing as 'Advantage'.

A white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a black person and or person of ethnic minority.

A poor white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor black/BAME person.

A rich white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a rich black/BAME person.

A white person with disabilities or poor mental health is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a BAME person with the same condition.

Having white privilege doesn't mean you have no other problems in life neither does it mean you're financially comfortable, it means your skin colour isn't one of your problems. It's not something you're conscious of.

My answer is this is why I've written "generally". Meaning, generally speaking a white person doesn't have to think about their whiteness in the world. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. You may be one...just like not every black person experiences (overt) racism but the majority do.

White privilege is similar to:

Male privilege. A man is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a woman in many ways. It's a man's world for now.

Able-bodied privilege. An able bodied person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a person with a disability. It's an able bodied person's world (for now).

Financial privilege. A rich person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor person. It's a rich person's world (for now).

Extrovert privilege. An extrovert is generally more privileged (at an advantage in society) than an Introvert. It's an extrovert's world.

Those with privilege just means society caters much more to them and others are trying to be heard or noticed as equals or gain the understanding, acceptance, provisions, etc that those privileged in their category have.
Some who are underprivileged (in whatever category) can and do face serious issues with safety, violence, etc.

A person can be both financially privileged and underprivileged as a woman or a BAME person. A person can have white privilege and also be underprivileged as a person with disabilities. There's plenty of privileges and lack of to go round.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage till they face the opposite disadvantage. Ever heard of a person born rich never realising how privileged they were till they faced hardship or witnessed other people's financial hardship? Or rich people sending their children to poorer places so they can experience a different lifestyle and value their privilege?

Sometimes, knowing that others are suffering is different from empathising with/feeling the effects of their suffering. The latter is what gets you to understand and accept the privilege you have.

Oh and lastly (a different point), being underprivileged in one or more areas doesn't automatically make you a good person. There are good and bad people in every category.

I've deliberately not mentioned my race, sex, ability, etc because it doesn't matter, my argument stands regardless.

What do you think?

Yes I believe you're right. I was going to mention my age, race, background and where I grew up because I thought it would further strengthen your argument but tbh it's just a distraction. Your points stand on their own merits.

Sadly, many many people are stupid. I think they genuinely can't understand, and are just totally unable to follow any of your perfectly correct points.

because if you are poor, disabled, have disabled children, etc etc, its quite hard to think of yourself as privileged, even if you are white

Yes, I think people forget to apply like for like. So a poor white person sees a rich black person and thinks, "well how can white privilege exist?" When what it means is that a poor black person will not be afforded the privileges of a poor white person. Or a person who is poor and disabled and white will still have more privilege than a person who is poor and disabled and black.
I've probably worded that clumsily.

Cos gammon

@Aunty5ocial

Cos gammon

Yes, also this.

How? Not being arsed, but you don’t back anything up. You just say a white disabled person is generally more privileged than a BAME disabled person (and all of the others you mentioned) but you don’t say how exactly.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage

You've answered your own question, OP. So I'd say YABU to wonder something when you clearly know the answer, yes.

And YA possibly B a tad U for using AIBU as a notepad for your own musings, but it doesn't bother me personally, so crack on.

It should not be black versus white, it should be as the black guy who carried the white guy to safety said....... it should be everyone against racism

@PinkiOcelot

How? Not being arsed, but you don’t back anything up. You just say a white disabled person is generally more privileged than a BAME disabled person (and all of the others you mentioned) but you don’t say how exactly.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/11/the-data-was-there-so-why-did-it-take-coronavirus-to-wake-us-up-to-racial-health-inequalities

People tend to just equate privilege with being wealthy.

White privilege doesn't mean you don't have disadvantages, it just means those disadvantages aren't to do with the colour of your skin.

I would say anyone who gives it a second thought would concede being white is an advantage.
But if that's the only advantage you have in life its hard to think you are privileged.
Maybe it's the application of privilege in a general sense that raises the hackles of a person in a shit situation?
Or if you are in a closed culture it might not make sense either.
The concept of Male privilege wouldn't make sense in an all boys school. Outside it yes, the fact you are getting to go in, yes, but once you are in this mini society, no because there is no benchmark.

I just don't understand where your argument takes you, except down an eternal rabbit hole.
FWIW I believe privilege exists, in many different ways, and should be addressed. But not specifically as White Privilege.

I would add a disclaimer to start with - in certain countries....you may be right but would be great to see some facts and a scientific comparison

But not all disadvantage is because of the colour of your skin. Maybe your parents (black or white) didn't work very hard so didn't get great jobs so you were brought up poor and education wasn't encouraged therefore you got poor grades and didn't get into the university you wanted?

My husband and I both came from working class backgrounds where they odds were against us. I was the first person from my family to go to university but I fought for it. I stood out as the kid with an accent at a posh university so I worked harder to fit in.

Because it's a misuse of language. The thing you are describing is two things: Structural social privilege, which exists in this country by the bucketload, just ask our Old Etonian PM, and structural racism that discriminates against BAME people in a variety of ways.

The educational outcomes statistics show this well: The Chinese lead tha way, followed by the Indians. Roma and Irish travellers trail in last, well-beaten by Black Carribbean.

bit.ly/37xDjLW

It is not a privilege not to be oppressed quite as much as someone else. It is not even a privilege not to be oppressed at all.

It's like saying women, who make up 52% of Humanity, are oppressed and so therefore are a minority. You should not do this to the English language.

I would say the main two reasons are A) because white, disadvantaged, poor people aren’t taught how class, poverty and race and sexism all intersect. They just think ‘well my life is shit so how can I be privileged?’. They don’t realise that although their life may be ridiculous hard, their skin colour isn’t one of the things making it harder.

Or
B) it’s hard to think of your own achievements as something that you are undeserving of, or that your privilege may have played a hand in getting you to that place. So someone who has never faced racism before might think ‘well, I worked really hard at school and I got good grades and I work really hard at work so I deserve to get the good job or promotion at my company’, which doesn’t account for the fact that even before all that, you’ve got a leg up because you’re white, and that a Black person with the exact same life experience would have to work 100x harder to even get a foot in the door.

Whether people think they benefit from white privilege or not is irrelevant. The whole term white privilege puts down black people who think the world is against them and also get white peoples backs up. Keep bring up white privelage is not helpful. Perhaps look at the way other ethnic groups arent benefiting in the same way that white people are and governments and people in power put things in place to make everyone have the same opportunities. Same should go for class devides, poor white or black people are not given the same opportunities as affluent black or white people, The thing is having white privelage is not even some thing white people can control, its unconscious bias if anything, and that goes for alot of perceived racism too.

Because people have the privilege of not seeing their privilege.

I remember when I used to work with my friend at a restaurant and someone came up to ask her if she was from Beijing or Singapore. She's from Suffolk. It was so weird, but it happens to her from time to time.
Being white, no strangers come up to me assuming I'm not English.

Even if you see that as minor, it's something that happens to her and doesn't happen to me.

@Malbecblooms those examples aside, do you think white privilege exists in any form?

@7Days Yes, both of those have definitely applied to people I have spoken to about it.

It's difficult for people to grasp as it's invisible and often white privilege is the absence of something. The absence of people making judgements and acting a certain way because of the colour of you skin so it's difficult to understand someone else's lived experience and appreciate something that you just have not experienced.

Some people can’t or won’t admit that they are better off than others because they think it means something will be taken away from them and given to someone else. Sometimes they will even go without something themselves if it means someone else (usually perceived by them as inferior) won’t get it either.

They also don’t care that others have barriers and difficulties in life that they do not, because they are unable to imagine life from any perspective than their own.