... to wonder why some people think there's no white privilege?

[IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme]

Of course there is. Why do people correlate white privilege with economic opportunities and financial status?

Privilege is the same thing as 'Advantage'.

A white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a black person and or person of ethnic minority.

A poor white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor black/BAME person.

A rich white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a rich black/BAME person.

A white person with disabilities or poor mental health is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a BAME person with the same condition.

Having white privilege doesn't mean you have no other problems in life neither does it mean you're financially comfortable, it means your skin colour isn't one of your problems. It's not something you're conscious of.

My answer is this is why I've written "generally". Meaning, generally speaking a white person doesn't have to think about their whiteness in the world. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. You may be one...just like not every black person experiences (overt) racism but the majority do.

White privilege is similar to:

Male privilege. A man is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a woman in many ways. It's a man's world for now.

Able-bodied privilege. An able bodied person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a person with a disability. It's an able bodied person's world (for now).

Financial privilege. A rich person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor person. It's a rich person's world (for now).

Extrovert privilege. An extrovert is generally more privileged (at an advantage in society) than an Introvert. It's an extrovert's world.

Those with privilege just means society caters much more to them and others are trying to be heard or noticed as equals or gain the understanding, acceptance, provisions, etc that those privileged in their category have.
Some who are underprivileged (in whatever category) can and do face serious issues with safety, violence, etc.

A person can be both financially privileged and underprivileged as a woman or a BAME person. A person can have white privilege and also be underprivileged as a person with disabilities. There's plenty of privileges and lack of to go round.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage till they face the opposite disadvantage. Ever heard of a person born rich never realising how privileged they were till they faced hardship or witnessed other people's financial hardship? Or rich people sending their children to poorer places so they can experience a different lifestyle and value their privilege?

Sometimes, knowing that others are suffering is different from empathising with/feeling the effects of their suffering. The latter is what gets you to understand and accept the privilege you have.

Oh and lastly (a different point), being underprivileged in one or more areas doesn't automatically make you a good person. There are good and bad people in every category.

I've deliberately not mentioned my race, sex, ability, etc because it doesn't matter, my argument stands regardless.

What do you think?

@itsgettingweird

Lining fair enough. But her dad doesn't feel the same either. The point she was making is she feels that there's a belief that all black people feel oppressed and white people all benefit from privilege. But her black African dad had more opportunity than her white WC mum. And she said it happens but it isn't as MSM and SM would have us believe . It happens in all groups.

In actual fact she said her dad has a high powered well paid job because that's what family decided he'd be. That's their culture. She said he had too much opportunity but no choice.

I'm white. I cannot know what it's like to have black or brown skin.

But I did live abroad for a number of years and struggled to grasp the language fluently. It was a very white country. I do know that in that instance for me it did limit my access to fully effective healthcare and job opportunities. It's why when I split with da dad who was fluent (been there since a child) I eventually returned to the U.K.

This is why I have masses of empathy for asylum seekers. Having to leave their lives behind and then struggling even though they are also safe.
I think there should be a mass state funded English teaching programme for adults with EFL. It would be a basic starting point to improve life chances, access to healthcare etc.
We know public health is the fundamental baseline.

I don’t think every black person feel oppressed black people born within rich families and rich black celebrities probably would struggle to feel oppressed, I do think every White person benefits from white privileges though.

It doesn’t mean that they have access to wealth or extra resources it’s simply that their race doesn’t limit them in the current system.

The fact that her dad is an a high paying job means nothing though, especially without knowing the wealth and potential financial help he had access to and their exact circumstances.

For my stepdad to have a high paying job he would need to start school from scratch and then do superior studies and he is in late 40‘s, so for him that wasn’t and isn’t an option. And when he arrived at 18 he didn’t have the financial mean, as an illegal immigrant with no resources, to study, he needed to work and make do.

So yes of course some black people can and do have high flying jobs and become rich while plenty of white people have average jobs and are poor, same can be said of white people. The difference is in how accessible it is for white people to access those positions vs black people. Again, if it was that easy you would see much more diversity in position of power and currently, in pretty much every western country you can’t really say that is the case (though it is better than 50 years ago).

My point is that my personal experience as a Person of Color, if it ever happens to be better than other less privileged people of color, should not be used to undermine other people‘s struggles and reality.

The same way that as a lesbian, me not experiencing homophobia (for example) would not entitle me to imply or suggest that homophobia isn’t a thing, it is a thing just not something I (would) have experienced.

Doesn’t make my experience invalid, it is absolutely valid, just not representative.

The word oppression is wrong. Many black people do feel discriminated against. Having a high powered job, doesn’t mean he hasn’t been discriminated against.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/black-bank-manager-wrongly-arrested-dale-semper-sue-met-police-racial-profiling

It doesn’t mean that they have access to wealth or extra resources it’s simply that their race doesn’t limit them in the current system.

Given that white males from the precariat are about the most at risk to not do well, on what basis would you say this?

If you look at a bunch of data on outcomes, and you think race is a valid category, it suggests that white and poor is a combination with a lot of significance. Are you sure that people don't think, poor white kid and that doesn't influence their behaviour?

And if you think it's the poor element that is the issue, why not tease out poor from black? Or people who don't speak the local language well - which can be any race? If you really want to dig down into systemic racism you must tease apart what is really about poverty or other kinds of disadvantage, and what is about race, and also where an association with things like poverty or crime influences people's ideas about race.

Interesting programme about Christian usually white girls who were slaves in the muslim Harem in Turkey Perhaps we should demand apologies and damages.

Don’t agree. If you grow up somewhere terrible but not much diversity you don’t have white privilege. Hate this assumtion that all white people are racism because of ‘white privileged’. You have NO idea of their background.

@Davincitoad

Do you believe that all men have male privilege?

Even if they've grown up in an all male environment, even if their life is shitty in every other way a man still has male privilege. Because it's not assumed that he can't do maths, or lift things or be trusted to make decisions (because he's not hysterical and controlled by his hormones). Whether women deal with all these negative assumptions, just because of their sex, because they are a woman.

White privilege isn't about being racist. It's not something you are, it's something you're born with if you're white, the same way you're born with male privilege if you're born male.

It's not being given extra opportunities or resources because you are white, because of your race. It's about not having negative assumptions made about you because of your race, the colour of your skin. The same way males don't have negative assumptions made about they capabilities because of their sex.

What do I think? I think you are of the BAME group, middle class and extremely empathetic. ..... or of generation Z!

Davin, I agree. Also in plenty of areas there is no one who is not white so when you are there white advantages cannot exist as everyone white. Even across the whole UK only 3% are black and some of those went to boarding school etc so we cannot really generalise as much as those who say everyone white is privileged would like.

I suspect however we all agree that discrimination on grounds someone is white or that they are black is a bad thing.

I agree the term white privilege is unhelpful. It won’t stop white racists from being racist but it will make white people who are not racist feel self conscious, guilty and uncomfortable around POC.

I don't agree with that! Pointing out white privilege isn't done to make people feel guilty, it's done to make people aware.

No one asked to be born white. No one asked to be born black. We have no control over what we look like but that does not mean that we can't look at a system which is not a level playing field, and scrutinise it.

It's the system that has 'developed' white privilege, rather than individual people, per se. And most people have benefited from it, without even realising.