... to wonder why some people think there's no white privilege?

[IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme]

Of course there is. Why do people correlate white privilege with economic opportunities and financial status?

Privilege is the same thing as 'Advantage'.

A white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a black person and or person of ethnic minority.

A poor white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor black/BAME person.

A rich white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a rich black/BAME person.

A white person with disabilities or poor mental health is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a BAME person with the same condition.

Having white privilege doesn't mean you have no other problems in life neither does it mean you're financially comfortable, it means your skin colour isn't one of your problems. It's not something you're conscious of.

My answer is this is why I've written "generally". Meaning, generally speaking a white person doesn't have to think about their whiteness in the world. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. You may be one...just like not every black person experiences (overt) racism but the majority do.

White privilege is similar to:

Male privilege. A man is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a woman in many ways. It's a man's world for now.

Able-bodied privilege. An able bodied person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a person with a disability. It's an able bodied person's world (for now).

Financial privilege. A rich person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor person. It's a rich person's world (for now).

Extrovert privilege. An extrovert is generally more privileged (at an advantage in society) than an Introvert. It's an extrovert's world.

Those with privilege just means society caters much more to them and others are trying to be heard or noticed as equals or gain the understanding, acceptance, provisions, etc that those privileged in their category have.
Some who are underprivileged (in whatever category) can and do face serious issues with safety, violence, etc.

A person can be both financially privileged and underprivileged as a woman or a BAME person. A person can have white privilege and also be underprivileged as a person with disabilities. There's plenty of privileges and lack of to go round.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage till they face the opposite disadvantage. Ever heard of a person born rich never realising how privileged they were till they faced hardship or witnessed other people's financial hardship? Or rich people sending their children to poorer places so they can experience a different lifestyle and value their privilege?

Sometimes, knowing that others are suffering is different from empathising with/feeling the effects of their suffering. The latter is what gets you to understand and accept the privilege you have.

Oh and lastly (a different point), being underprivileged in one or more areas doesn't automatically make you a good person. There are good and bad people in every category.

I've deliberately not mentioned my race, sex, ability, etc because it doesn't matter, my argument stands regardless.

What do you think?

I absolutely believe that all sorts of privilege, including white privilege exist. I am not convinced that we have found the right way to go about solving the problem.

If a black person and a white person both interviewed for a job in a large company in the U.K, and the white person was marginally better qualified, who do you actually think would be offered that job? Same question can be asked with man/woman or disabled person/non disabled person

I think your OP, in a way, provides the answer by listing other types of privilege. It's rare to be in a situation where only one privilege is at play - and, in the same day, someone might see the rise and fall of their own privilege as different situations arise, without always being privy to others' experiences.

Well written and thoughtful. Got me thinking- how much of the problem is the word “privilege”. Because when we think of someone who is privileged it conjures up images of upper class etc. Would “White advantage” be a better phrase? Would it make it easier for people to understand what it is?

I think that Douglas Murray is one of the few sane voices on this (who, strangely enough, never appears on the BBC).
He says that, just as you can't say that all Black people do or are x, you can't say all White people are racist.
White working-class boys come out lowest in educational attainment. The Chinese come highest.

I think you've laid it out quite plainly there OP and I'm not sure why some pp still finding it difficult to understand.

@Malbecblooms I also came from a poor working class background, single mum, my dad was in prison. I still recognise that I have white privilege. I don't have class privilege or wealth privilege. There are different types of privilege.

Malbecblooms those examples aside, do you think white privilege exists in any form?

I don't know. It would be naïve to say no when not presented with all of the facts and stats.

I do think a lot is self fulfilling prophecy and I'm often astounded at how often race gets woven into things.

I think we also need to look more at causation. WHY are more black people having medical problems in covid / pregnancy etc. If crime rates higher in certain areas? Why? If education levels are lower in certain groups why?You can't assume someone else's success is the reason for your lack of.

So in this, a higly unequal society that is getting more unequal by the day, the disadvantaged need to unite to fight against the real privilege of people who have the advantage of inherited wealth, private education and membership of powerful networks, an increasing minority of whom are from the ethnic minorites. This govt claims to be the 'most diverse in our history,' by which they mean Old Etonians from four continents.

So go ahead and tell the white working class they are privileged, because that's just what the people who pull the ladder up behind them want you to do.

Yanbu to wonder.

Is this really an AIBU question though? AIBU is more for petty gripes and irritations than serious questions of the day.

I would have thought you question would be better off in In The News or Politics or somewhere like that.

Otherwise people might start to think the Mumsnet AIBU board is being used by journalists and politicos to trawl for soundbites.

I hasten to add here I'm not implying that the race of anyone is the reason for lack of success I'm saying we need to understand it to solve it.no one should ever ever experience inequality and it really troubles me that there is inequality. My point is would rather understand why to help work through the problem. I want to live in a world where no one has to think about themselves by their colour.

I find it heartbreaking to think so many people out there feel their problems exist because of that. It's the 21st century.no one should ever feel like that.

@peajotter

Well written and thoughtful. Got me thinking- how much of the problem is the word “privilege”. Because when we think of someone who is privileged it conjures up images of upper class etc. Would “White advantage” be a better phrase? Would it make it easier for people to understand what it is?

Yeah that’s what I always thought too. People equate the world privilege to mean literal privilege such as wealth, luxuries etc instead of not recognising it means advantage when you are on a level playing friend for everything else ...

A white poor disabled man and a black poor disabled man who are the same age and both grow up in the same town in the same level of poverty. Neither of them are privileged in terms of literal privilege. They both have hard lives. But the white man has an advantage over the black man on average in certain situations due to less prejudice against his race. Hence the term privilege (advantage).

Just like an ‘able bodied privilege’ means that a poor white man who’s able bodied has privilege over a poor white man who’s disabled. This doesn’t mean the poor able bodied man has a “privileged life” whatsoever. It just means he has an advantage. He doesn’t have a disability to make his already difficult circumstances even more difficult.

You just say a white disabled person is generally more privileged than a BAME disabled person (and all of the others you mentioned) but you don’t say how exactly.

I'm white and disabled.

The folks at the shop were lovely and helpful and couldn't do enough for me... while chatting racist shite about something in the papers.

Trust me, I felt my white privilege. I'm very vulnerable when out alone and actively need help from passing strangers all the time. If I were brown, I'd have thought twice before risking living here.

Sorry that was meant to say level playing field

I think it’s not as simple as that op. Yes, white people are generally (not necessarily individually) privileged in the UK, but that’s not where everybody lives. Privilege and inequality often affect members of the same group differently too eg depending on their class, sex and education. It’s not quite as simple as you make out.

@Ted27

because if you are poor, disabled, have disabled children, etc etc, its quite hard to think of yourself as privileged, even if you are white

You're underprivileged or at a disadvantage when it comes to the other three (poor, disabled, disabled children) compared to someone who's rich, able-bodied and with able-bodied children but privileged or at an advantage when it comes to being white (over a BAME person in the same situation). You're not 'privileged' or 'at an advantage' as a whole or blanket term.

Ignoring privilege allows people to attribute their own success to their own hard work and dismiss the unprivileged as workshy or otherwise reaping their just desserts

It makes it a lot easier to be a Tory, and preserve your own privilege, if you think like that.

Privilege becomes entrenched and relatively easy. It takes something to recognise the role privilege really plays in your success.

I wish I could remember where I read it.

But it was a persuasive piece of analysis about media/social media coverage of intersectionality themes following the time of the Occupation movement. Racism/sexism mentions drove out any mention of class solidarity or economic inequalities. This guy put a deliberate divide and conquer spin on it.

I dont agree with that, there are plenty problems in the world that need addressing, people are rightfully angry. It doesnt need to be made up to be capitalised on though.

It does feel like we are splintering into our own groups even more. I think there are people on social media taking a 50% pissed off person and turning them into 100% pissed off. Guilty of it myself. It's harder to cooperate, to have fellow feeling. All justice movements have the firebrands but they also have the consensus builders. If we are all firebrands we are missing half our skill set and are less threat to the ones who really hold all the power.

@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

I was putting across an alternative viewpoint

I have a black son and Aisian godchildren, I understand white privilige

I don’t believe in white privilege but I do believe in white native privilege in the UK.
You are an idiot if you don’t get it.

@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

Of course there is. Why do people correlate white privilege with economic opportunities and financial status?

Privilege is the same thing as 'Advantage'.

A white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a black person and or person of ethnic minority.

A poor white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor black/BAME person.

A rich white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a rich black/BAME person.

A white person with disabilities or poor mental health is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a BAME person with the same condition.

Having white privilege doesn't mean you have no other problems in life neither does it mean you're financially comfortable, it means your skin colour isn't one of your problems. It's not something you're conscious of.

My answer is this is why I've written "generally". Meaning, generally speaking a white person doesn't have to think about their whiteness in the world. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. You may be one...just like not every black person experiences (overt) racism but the majority do.

White privilege is similar to:

Male privilege. A man is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a woman in many ways. It's a man's world for now.

Able-bodied privilege. An able bodied person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a person with a disability. It's an able bodied person's world (for now).

Financial privilege. A rich person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor person. It's a rich person's world (for now).

Extrovert privilege. An extrovert is generally more privileged (at an advantage in society) than an Introvert. It's an extrovert's world.

Those with privilege just means society caters much more to them and others are trying to be heard or noticed as equals or gain the understanding, acceptance, provisions, etc that those privileged in their category have.
Some who are underprivileged (in whatever category) can and do face serious issues with safety, violence, etc.

A person can be both financially privileged and underprivileged as a woman or a BAME person. A person can have white privilege and also be underprivileged as a person with disabilities. There's plenty of privileges and lack of to go round.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage till they face the opposite disadvantage. Ever heard of a person born rich never realising how privileged they were till they faced hardship or witnessed other people's financial hardship? Or rich people sending their children to poorer places so they can experience a different lifestyle and value their privilege?

Sometimes, knowing that others are suffering is different from empathising with/feeling the effects of their suffering. The latter is what gets you to understand and accept the privilege you have.

Oh and lastly (a different point), being underprivileged in one or more areas doesn't automatically make you a good person. There are good and bad people in every category.

I've deliberately not mentioned my race, sex, ability, etc because it doesn't matter, my argument stands regardless.

What do you think?

You missed out “in the West...” in your overly long OP.

I think it's the same reason men cannot see male privilege. I think you have to work at seeing the privilege you have. It's so "normal" and "everday" because it's your lifes experience.

So, just as men have to work at understanding male privilege, white people have to work at understanding their privilege.

It's an uncomfortable experience, acknowledging your privilege, when you might already feel like you are at the bottom of the pile. (Working class white men and white women). But once you start
,it's really not that difficult to face up to home truths.

[quote Ted27]@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

I was putting across an alternative viewpoint

I have a black son and Aisian godchildren, I understand white privilige[/quote]
Ah, sorry. I misread.