To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

[selfemployedconfused]

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

[AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]

I got an email from my gym which I thought was a bit cheeky. They had originally frozen DD payments due to being closed. Now they are requesting people resume their direct debut payments despite not being able to go to the gym AND make a donation because they "might have to close permanently otherwise". So, not only do they want a bloody direct debit for nothing, they also want a donation!

I somehow doubt people are going to go for this idea.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

I think cleaners are often a very personal relationship. Mine is fab and I pay her for holidays/sick etc. I also know she struggles financially so that's why I continue to pay her.

I have been quite shocked to hear wealthy friends hear they aren't paying during lockdown but everyone has a different moral compass I guess.

[worriedmama16]

I'm a self employed cleaner and a few of my clients have continued to pay me.
They've all told me they want to make sure I'll hold a slot open for them and are very happy with my work, it's the decent thing to do.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

Agree worriedmama16. Also some self interest in my case in that good cleaners are hard to find!

[MarshaBradyo]

SE too and agree.

[Sandybval]

I think if you aren't financially affected and you want to continue you using them afterwards then personally I would. I'm getting really frustrated with our childminder though. We had some settling in sessions before this all kicked off, and really felt comfortable leaving DS in her setting, but he had only spent about 10 hours spread over a fortnight there. I have taken extended maternity leave (unpaid) because of some other things going on and I wouldn't be able to WFH with him, so we are down to one wage; admittedly mostly out of choice. So we paid last month in full with the promise that it would secure our place no matter how long places were closed, and this month she asked for full pay again. We just can't afford it, so she's taken us off her books and last month's pay was for nothing which seen as though she can claim next month anyway is unfair. If they aren't planning to go back to work then no need to pay them basically, we are £700 down because stupidly we thought we were doing the right thing, lesson learnt I guess!

[Truthpact]

I get that self employed people rely on payment from people to pay their bills, but that's the risk you take being self employed unfortunately. If you're sick, you don't get paid either. The government are paying some self employed as well.

I wouldn't pay for services I'm not getting either.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

Self employed covers such a wide variety of roles and incomes though. I don't know many cleaners who are making loads of cash - they are not contractors on £750 a day and I find the comparison distasteful.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

I mean how many children sit at school and think when I grow up I want to be a cleaner! Not many I am guessing.

I think that's why it is important to pay cleaners if you can.

[DeanImpala67]

Tutor here too, and not one of my clients has continued paying when they aren't receiving any tuition. I have moved some online but not all. I certainly don't expect those not receiving tuition to pay, that would be like charging a retainer to keep a space, doesn't sit morally well with me. But maybe desperate tutors would continue to charge to covers their outgoings? Who knows!

[LucieLucie]

@Sandybval your Cm is really out of order. Without having anything in writing though I guess there's not much you can do.
Some CMs are coming across very greedy and failing to understand what being self employed actually means.

[worriedmama16]

Yes Mrs Campbell, I'm not skint but I'm hardly rolling in it either.
I work hard, do an amazing job and I'm trustworthy and reliable.
I charge more than average and some people ask for a quote and then balk at paying a cleaner that much... some also look at the bigger picture!

[user1497207191]

Most self employed people (at least those who have filed tax returns) will be paid 80% of their average monthly income for March, April and May (although I accept that there will always be exceptions and people that fall through the cracks?)

Firstly, there are more holes that Swiss cheese in the eligibility rules.

Secondly, it's not 80% of "income" - it's 80% of "profit", so ongoing costs such as insurance, subscriptions, professional fees, websites, vehicle expenses, equipment hire, etc etc has to come out of the 80%, so even with the 80%, many people are still not getting enough to cover their business costs, let alone anything to pay themselves.

[Sandybval]

@LucieLucie I do have it in writing and the guidance says that if they do charge, they should make it clear that it's voluntary and not mandatory to hold a place (the guidance was updated after we had paid)- even if it says in original contracts as largely this is force majeure that couldn't be foreseen when we signed that contract. But realistically it's too much of a protracted and potentially expensive process to follow it up, unfortunately.

[sunflowersandtulips50]

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff my DD piano teacher has been doing zoom classes since lockdown. Not had an issue at all, she has also set up a weekly zoom concert with all her students. Your aunt needs to increase her fees too........

[user1497207191]

I get that self employed people rely on payment from people to pay their bills, but that's the risk you take being self employed unfortunately. If you're sick, you don't get paid either.

People need to remember that when they come on here whingeing that cleaners, gardeners etc want to charge more than minimum wage! They soon forget that overheads need to be paid, PLUS a provision to be made for all the time they're not able to work, as you say, for holidays, illness, etc. VERY different to employees who get paid holidays, SSP, furlough, etc.,

[Mummyoflittledragon]

YANBU
I do not have that kind of relationship with my cleaners. They come fortnightly and just stopped showing up at the start of lockdown. No call or text. I’ve always paid cash in hand. But ok money at £15 an hour and decidedly north of London. I never mess them around and I’m not really 100% happy with the clean.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

One thing I have learnt in lockdown is how much my cleaners do, lordy the dust . . .

[MarshaBradyo]

People need to remember that when they come on here whingeing that cleaners, gardeners etc want to charge more than minimum wage!

Yes it should be more than nmw. Gardeners about £20 to £30 (can’t remember) and cleaners £12 to £15 In London

[GoatyGoatyMingeMinge]

one poster declared that she would reconsider friendships with friends who didn’t keep on paying for services they weren’t receiving regardless of their own income situation because it made them morally bankrupt

@ComtesseDeSpair

I'd love to know which thread this was on

[beautifulstranger101]

one poster declared that she would reconsider friendships with friends who didn’t keep on paying for services they weren’t receiving regardless of their own income situation because it made them morally bankrupt

LOL - if I was her friend I'd be breathing a sigh of relief I didnt have to interact with her ever again- bullet dodged!

[user1497207191]

cleaners £12 to £15 In London

Far too low - no way can they cover travel time, materials, etc plus provide for overheads, holiday time, potential sick pay, etc., on that. Needs to be at least double NMW as a starting point to come out with the equivalent "take home" for someone working identical hours on NMW. £15-£20 range is still cheap.

[GiveMyHeadPeaceffs]

Yanbu
I'm currently paying my childminder 50% of her normal amount as a "retainer" however this month is the last month as I can't justify it when she's not providing a service. My DP may well be at home until September in which case I'm not sending dc out of the house for care. I'm a key worker so need to go to work. Her DH is also still working and is getting considerable overtime in his job.

Plus if I doubt any of the other parents are paying her at the minute. If we're about to hit a major recession I need to start looking out for my family.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

To be fair I know plenty of wealthy people and I would be re-evaluating them if I knew they weren't paying their cleaners. I don't see what's wrong with that?

All my good friends have continued to pay during lockdown.

[MarshaBradyo]

User what do you pay?

I have found that adequate and see that range on here all the time. I’ve only once been quoted £17 and I’ve had a lot of people quote. Why are the rest under quoting?