To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

[selfemployedconfused]

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

[Stompythedinosaur]

*Socialism doesn’t work for a reason

That's a bit of a jump!

[multivac]

multivac Incorrect. Cleaners have been permitted to work this entire time

I'm aware of the guidelines, thank you. You appear to be unaware of my family's status regarding self-isolation; and also of the possibility of following social distancing guidelines in my house.

Your cleaner chose to be self employed

Ah that soothing, silky myth of 'choice'. But yes, let's agree she did. I also get to choose to pay her or not right now. Why does it bother you so much, I wonder, that I went for the former? I mean, you make your own choices, right?

[Fromthebirdsnest]

Also to the comment you don't give strangers money ... Actually we give a lot to charity so in a way we do! X

[heartsonacake]

That's a bit of a jump!

Stompythedinosaur Not really when that poster referred to being wealthy means you have a responsibility.

I'm aware of the guidelines, thank you. You appear to be unaware of my family's status regarding self-isolation; and also of the possibility of following social distancing guidelines in my house.

multivac Ah, so you did choose to stop her working. She was permitted to work, you just decided you didn’t want her to. The reason is irrelevant and my point stands.

[beautifulstranger101]

I'm kind of bemused by this attitude that if you dont pay your cleaners during lockdown, you might lose them and they wont come back when its over.

I thought this was going to result in a recession whereby there was mass unemployment, not enough jobs and everyone's incomes are going to be taxed to the hilt and we'll all have less money. Therefore, it seems a bit fcking stupid for cleaners to purposely dump their clients doesnt it? why on earth would you reject paying clients after lockdown when there is a bloody recession on? that makes no business sense whatsoever and if cleaners do that, they'll only be hurting themselves by losing more customers. A large chunk of people after lockdown might have to decide that cant afford a cleaner any more which means their client base gets even smaller, yet they're going to dump clients left right and centre for not paying during lockdown?- thats a terrible business decision- alienating customers like that.

[multivac]

"Again, it will be important to ensure that government guidelines are followed to ensure everyone’s safety."

How do you interpret this guideline? What does 'it will be important' mean, if it's impossible?

And bless you for missing that final, implicit 'a' from Ah

[Whathewhatnow]

Heartonacake I love how self isolation because you're shielding is a choice. Don't be so daft.

[cologne4711]

AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service

Not at all. But most of MN seems to disagree with you and me. Until it comes to holidays of course and I am sure they expect a refund then (quite rightly - but why the difference?)

This is useful guidance: www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic

[Pickles89]

There's no reason whatever to pay someone who you use the services of on a self-employed basis! And I say that as someone self employed, who hasn't had work since the start of March.

[Pickles89]

@Stuckforthefourthtime

But the cleaner and after school babysitter are entitled to government help?

[Monkeynuts18]

@LochJessMonster

I too am requesting a refund of money paid for a holiday cottage but the firm in question are refusing to provide it, saying that their contract doesn’t allow refunds (which isn’t true, actually, but that’s the position they’re taking). I’ve sent them an email with the guidance @cologne4711 has linked to above but haven’t had any response.

Have you had a refund on your cottage or are you still negotiating about it?

[Sunshineandmoonlight]

Haven’t been paying ours since the start but our gardener has continued to do the garden. He is outside, doesn’t interact with us or touch anything like tables/chairs.

[Cyberattack]

I've been paying my cleaner since lock-down. She needs the money and I can afford it. It would be wrong not to pay her.

[Echobelly]

Depends on circumstances - we're both working, so we can keep paying. TBH, if one of us had lost our job in the last few weeks, we might not do and were clear with cleaner that it might not continue if our circumstances changed (DH is a contractor but fortunately, and unusually, moved straight to a new one lats week). No one would expect you to keep paying a cleaner or childcarer if one of you had lost your job and needed to save your money.

[Blimeyoreilly2020]

I’m in the same position as cyberattack. I have continued to pay my cleaner as I’m well aware of how little she lives on and how much she needs it. But our income has not been affected, if it drastically had I may not have been in the same position to continue payment. There’s no one size fits all.

[be47]

It's really disingenuous to paint this situation as something the self-employed signed up for. This isn't missing a few day's work due to a cold or going on a holiday - this is months of financial uncertainty with no clear end in sight, caused not by them or their clients, but by government guidelines. Just because cleaners have technically been able to work, doesn't mean they are all comfortable with it - MN likes to go on and on about how many people are considered vulnerable when it comes to discussions about lifting lockdown, yet no one seems to consider that this might impact their cleaner etc.?

I don't think it's necessarily immoral to not pay your cleaner, especially if your finances have been impacted, but to say this is the same as illness or a holiday is just ridiculous!

[JacobReesMogadishu]

I’m still paying my dog walker the £100 a month I normally pay her. She can’t claim furlough so has gone into universal credit. Which I suspect is a bit shit. I’m still on full pay, why would I be £100 a month up while she’s struggling? I have known her as a distant friend for some years....maybe that’s the difference.

[JacobReesMogadishu]

Oh and I’m not guilted. Saw her in passing the other day and she said I didn’t have to carry on paying her, that she would manage. I said I’d rather carry on.

[Doilooklikeatourist]

Haven’t paid my cleaner as she obviously isn’t working at the moment
She’s self employed and will be getting the money from the govt .
She is fine about not working as she wants to social distance and is actually turning work down
No , not feeling guilty and will be very glad to see her back when this is all over

[Justanotherlurker]

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1260134887165739009

Just adding this for posterity.

[bumblingbovine49]

YANBU. These people have chosen self employment over regular employment; there are benefits and downsides to that. One downside is the uncertainty in times like these

I agree with this . Self employed people often choose to be because they like the freedom and not having a boss. They want the freedom and flexibility and the potential to make a lot more money than those working for others ( though I appreciate it doesn't work out like that.for every one). The flip side is it is more risky.

I do feel really sorry for the situation some self employed people are in though . It can't be easy.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

@Pickles89 yes, officially cleaners and part time babysitters are entitled to self employed support. But they earn very little, employers tend to offer little enough that cash in hand is the only way to make a decent living given that the work is quite unstable, and even if they DO declare, many and I would say even a majority would not have the years of steady income to show for a grant.

I think it's disingenuous for people to say that they're not paying because their cleaner should have been declaring income, when they've often been paying below the living wage, for a job that requires cleaners to fund multiple trips in a day and bear with last minute cancellations and the like too. Yes, if you're paying £££ to go through an agency then you are absolved. But otherwise I think we should pay.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

These people have chosen self employment over regular employment; there are benefits and downsides to that. One downside is the uncertainty in times like these

Maybe there are cleaners doing it because they have an entrepreneurial spirit and wanted to choose a high risk / high reward option, or just love cleaning other people's pubic hair out of plugholes. But many are doing it because it is a rare job that has minimal entry requirements, including language, and can be quite flexible around caring commitments or a primary job. These are not IT contractors who now have to accept the downside of paying themselves in dividends, they're almost all low income and often now struggling.

I think it's pretty disgusting not to pay for when they couldn't come in even if they wanted to.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

Its an unprecedented moment of national crisis and we all need to look after each other.
If your struggling yourself then, of course, you don't need to feel bad.

If, like me, you're a pajama clad laptop jockey with a wage coming in at the end of each month- then you should do what you can.

Pay your cleaner and childminder a retainer and donate the cost of your commute to charity.