To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

[selfemployedconfused]

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

[MarshaBradyo]

I’m laughing at the reconsidering thing too.

[GoatyGoatyMingeMinge]

To be fair I know plenty of wealthy people and I would be re-evaluating them if I knew they weren't paying their cleaners. I don't see what's wrong with that?

If only Mumsnet had a block button

[heartsonacake]

YANBU. These people have chosen self employment over regular employment; there are benefits and downsides to that. One downside is the uncertainty in times like these.

Unfortunately a lot of these people don’t seem to understand what being self employed actually means

[MasakaBuzz]

I have paid mine 50%. I thought that was fair, given my income has not been impacted.

As for the cash in hand business. I lost any sense of morality over that during the MP’s expenses scandal. When our leaders start behaving honestly they can start expecting the rest of us to.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

What you would block me for saying I would and have continued to pay my cleaner?

Wow, mn really is a different world.

I think some people on here need to think about who is actually cleaning their loos? Was that their ambition in life or is what they have ended up doing?

If you are wealthy - then pay your cleaners!!

[Whathewhatnow]

I think if your income is unaffected you should pay as normal for all self-employed services where it is easily possible.
As long as you have a good, longstanding relationship with the person.
And you are sure they are declaring.... the fact they will get 80% is their good fortune. It's still not 100% and many people have irregular earnings and this wont amount to much.
Obviously not if your income has been tanked. But otherwise... yes. It's decent.

[ypestis]

As usual Owen Jones has an opinion on this. He says:

if someone can afford a cleaner, they should be paying them to stay at home and doing their own cleaning - they've certainly got the time to do it - otherwise they are a shockingly selfish human being

mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1260494372308688898

[mrscampbellblackagain]

God, I am agreeing for once with Owen Jones!

[heartsonacake]

If you are wealthy - then pay your cleaners!!

mrscampbellblackagain Nobody should be paid for a service they are not actually giving out, regardless of whether the client is wealthy or not.

These cleaners have chosen to be self employed; they have chosen that work knowing the benefits and the downsides.

Being wealthy doesn’t mean you should pay someone for a service you are not receiving just because they may be struggling financially. It is not a clients job or responsibility to ensure their cleaners have money.

[Whathewhatnow]

Incidentally, my best friend is self employed.

Some very very wealthy clients have paid him a reduced fee for providing his service online. Several have now said that because the Govt. Advice has changed he must return to their houses or that's it.

A sizeable rump of middle-income people have continued paying him the same for online e as he would have got if physically attending.

Some have paid him less because he isnt physically attending but have continued to pay.

Clients with income directly hit have generally put him on hold.

He isnt going back to the uber-rich non-payers. Even tho he is skint and has taught their kids for 10+ years. I luffs him for that.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

Seriously, look at the financial situation of someone doing your cleaning and then look at yourself in the mirror.

These are not well paid people.

But we all make decisions we are happy with I guess.

I am also paying for private education and am definitely not getting my money's worth there either but I respect they are doing their best.

Is just don't understand how 'wealthy' people could not pay their cleaners. They aren't on crazy money but we all know they really rely on their wages.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

Interestingly my cleaner has said it is generally those people who aren't really wealthy who have continued to pay her during lockdown. But they felt it was the right thing to do.

[heartsonacake]

Seriously, look at the financial situation of someone doing your cleaning and then look at yourself in the mirror.

mrscampbellblackagain I don’t have a cleaner

Is just don't understand how 'wealthy' people could not pay their cleaners. They aren't on crazy money but we all know they really rely on their wages.

Why should they? They would be giving free money away for no reason; they are not receiving a service.

Cleaners, or anyone else self-employed, relying on their wages and their own financial situations are not their clients responsibility.

Being wealthy doesn’t mean you should be obligated to financially prop up others who are struggling.

[TrickyKid]

Yanbu. Technically they'll be getting paid twice once they've received their government grant. I'm self employed and don't expect to be payed when I'm not working. That's a risk you take when you're self employed.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

I am very confused as to why people who don't have cleaners are so vocal about not paying them! I have a cleaner, I have paid her whilst she hasn't worked because I think it is the right thing to do. I am struggling to see on the incredibly left wing world of mn that this is somehow the wrong thing to do. Maybe I will check with my cleaner tomorrow if she would like to refund me?

Being wealthy brings responsibilities or at least it should do!

[Truthpact]

People need to remember that when they come on here whingeing that cleaners, gardeners etc want to charge more than minimum wage! They soon forget that overheads need to be paid, PLUS a provision to be made for all the time they're not able to work, as you say, for holidays, illness, etc. VERY different to employees who get paid holidays, SSP, furlough, etc.,

Yeah exactly. They charge more because its meant to be covering the extras you don't get when self employed like holidays, sick days etc.

If the wealthy can afford it, then it's great if they are still paying even a percentage (I really don't think you should be expecting 100% from people). But I know if I had a cleaner, I doubt I could justify continuing paying for a service I wasn't getting. I can't afford one anyway, but if I did it would be stretching me to my limits on outgoings, so I couldn't keep paying for something that I was doing myself.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

And all the SE people on this thread - are you earning the same as cleaners? Out of interest?

[firstmentat]

One thing I have learnt in lockdown is how much my cleaners do, lordy the dust . . .
Yes, this. My house feels like it is covered in dust (and all sorts of sticky stuff).

[Devlesko]

I agree, totally.
If you are wealthy enough it's a nice gesture, but you shouldn't feel guilty if you can't afford to.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

I do get if you now can't afford it then that is a different matter but there are plenty of people who can and just won't pay.

[multivac]

I'm paying our cleaner. My income hasn't changed, it's in my budget, it doesn't hurt me, it helps her. I have about 12 hours back that I used to spend in the car a week that I can easily use for vacuuming and dusting. I can't help the self-employed builder who lives two door down from us in that way, unfortunately. I feel neither smug about the former, nor guilty about the latter.

And I certainly don't give a fuck what mumsnet's verdict on my choices might be

[heartsonacake]

Being wealthy brings responsibilities or at least it should do!

mrscampbellblackagain Don’t be so silly. Being wealthy isn’t a job or a position.

I do get if you now can't afford it then that is a different matter but there are plenty of people who can and just won't pay.

Of course they won’t. There’s no need for them to be giving out free money for a service they’re not receiving.

A persons financial situation is their own responsibility.

[multivac]

'Free money' is such a dickish phrase.

[Whathewhatnow]

I absolutely despise the "if you're wealth enough, it's a nice gesture" idea. Ughhhhh. It sounds so... 19th century!

[Whathewhatnow]

Obviously I have absolutely no problem if you are struggling, too.