To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

[selfemployedconfused]

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

[londonscalling]

We have not continued to pay our cleaner. My husband is self employed so his salary has dropped. He has been fortunate to claim 80% under the government scheme. Our cleaner has her own company and will also be claiming the 80%. I'm therefore uncertain why we should still be paying her. My husband isn't getting paid by his clients whilst his work has dried up. Are people still paying their hairdressers etc?

[OublietteBravo]

I’ve been paying my cleaner as usual throughout lockdown. She’s gone over and above for me several times over the years. (In fact I’m her only original client still on her books). Most notably when a power cut during our holiday meant that all the food in the freezer defrosted and she sorted it all out - even though the smell must have been unbearable (rotting fish 🤮). We’ve agreed this week that she’ll start back at the beginning of June (her suggestion).

I’m still paying DD’s French tutor and she’s still having weekly lessons even though her GCSEs were cancelled (and she’s not taking French for A-level).

We’re also still paying for several other activities we usually do. Because we can afford it and we want the businesses to survive. One of them has offered to give us vouchers for the total of all the payments we’ve made to spend in their cafe/shop when they reopen.

[multivac]

don't pretend it's some sort of "retainer" for future service

It isn't. HTH.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

It's not 'pretending' - don't be so silly.

Of course cleaners will go back to work when they are able to and, I assume, prioritise clients who have continued to pay.

If their service isn't possible in the future, that won't be the cleaners fault. And they certainly won't be able to provide a service if they're homeless, will they?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

in terms of cleaners protecting clients' money. I think using the money to keep a roof over your head and keep in good health is all they can do

And that's fine, just so long as they're straightforward about it and don't pretend it's some sort of "retainer" for future service which may never be possible

[Tc83]

I’m not. They are coming back on the 1st June but not been paying them

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

If anyone IS paying less than the living wage I'll agree, but I can't think of many cleaners who charge less than £9.30 an hour - round here, double that is more common

In which case that's great. I know there are plenty of cleaners in our area of London getting £10 an hour, more on £11-12 - which is only just above the living wage at £10.75, and below once you factor in that compared with someone in a more regular job their short jobs mean they have higher travel costs and can do fewer hours per day.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

Puzzled in terms of cleaners protecting clients' money. I think using the money to keep a roof over your head and keep in good health is all they can do.

Larger concerns like holidays lets... they're unlikely to be able to claim on their insurance (force majeure and all that) so will be waiting to see how things pan out.

In the meantime, they're usually offering reshedules rather than refunds in order to try to protect their business. This in turn will hopefully protect the clients money.

If they go under now, the money is lost for good anyway.

Nurseries.. if you're not happy with what your nursery is charging you then hand in your notice and you can look for somewhere else in due course. If you've experienced a drop in income, speak to them. They may be able to reduce fees. They won't want to lose customers at the moment as they won't be able to fill up places that aren't actually available.

But they are unlikely to have the reserves to offer reduced or no costs to all customers, unless people are happy for them to go under in a month or so.

[multivac]

Is private tutoring your sole family source of income, zingally, out of interest?

[zingally]

I also work as a private tutor in kids homes.
It honestly never occurred to me to expect the parents to pay me if they're not receiving tutoring. And even if it had, I would never have asked for it.
Is it frustrating to be down on income? Yes. Am I poorer? Yes. Is it my client's problem? No.

[Alaimo]

No cleaner here, but there are services here that I've continued to pay for even though I can't access them at the moment. Mostly local social enterprises that I don't want to go under. I still get paid my normal wage so see no reason not to support businesses/organisations that I hope will be active again post-lockdown.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I think it's disingenuous for people to say that they're not paying because their cleaner should have been declaring income, when they've often been paying below the living wage

If anyone IS paying less than the living wage I'll agree, but I can't think of many cleaners who charge less than £9.30 an hour - round here, double that is more usual

And once again nobody's said what those who expect paying are doing to protect clients' money against the risk of them closing down permanently ...

[SpokeTooSoon]

We were asked to pay half the usual fees for this. It’s not that much so I decided to pay the full amount. Definitely not getting a fair deal.

[SpokeTooSoon]

Our dance teacher is providing rubbish lessons via YouTube. It’s the basic lesson she uploaded the first week with a little bit extra added each week - very low effort! Others are doing live zoom lessons. Mine have given up it’s so boring and no opportunity to interact or see buddies.

Those who have really put the effort in and adapted their business are the ones who will survive this.

[multivac]

This thread is certainly illuminating
I'm afraid it is.

[Abracad]

YANBU. These people have chosen self employment over regular employment; there are benefits and downsides to that. One downside is the uncertainty in times like these

“These people”

Fuck
Me

[WitchQueenofDarkness]

This thread is certainly illuminating.

[Iloveplacentas]

I love my cleaner, she is excellent and has cleaned for me for years. I don’t want to lose her and I don’t want her to struggle. So I’m paying her. Luckily my finances are the same so I can afford to. If I had lost my job or I didn’t have a good relationship with her then I may not have. Mostly I want her to return when it’s all over, of she wasn’t good at her job then I wouldn’t care if she came back or not.

[cooliebrown]

our dance teacher is doing on-line lessons. They're a bit rubbish tbh, but we're happily paying every week because we want her dance school to still be going after COVID....

[BarbaraofSeville]

YANBU. These people have chosen self employment over regular employment; there are benefits and downsides to that. One downside is the uncertainty in times like these

It's also wrong to assume that everyone is self employed by choice. Proper PAYE jobs are hard to come by in some industries because employers don't want to commit to people having the right to holidays, sick pay, redundancy pay etc.

So they tell people that they are 'self employed' when that's only the case for tax and employment purposes, but they do the job just like any genuine employee.

HMRC are trying to crack down on it, but industry always seems to be one step ahead and often it's the poor builder, stagehand or supply teacher who's stuck in the middle of it all - it's not all contractors on X hundred pounds a day who are in this situation. I know some people prefer the freedom of contracting, but many would much prefer the security of a regular job.

Then you have those who are self employed because they've been unable to fit an employed job in with family commitments or their partner's job, especially if they can't get a regular shift pattern so they can arrange childcare, or work when their partner is at home to look after their children.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

Well, charging for non existent childcare and holidays etc is illegal

I'm not sure this is true. Its quite normal in some situations to pay a retainer to secure access to a service in future.

[DeeplyMovingExperience]

I love my cleaners. They are the hardest-working women I know. Both are single parents with kids to feed. I will keep paying them even though I too am self-employed and not receiving any pay right now.

[AlternativePerspective]

Well,charging for non existent childcare and holidays etc is illegal so if people do pay it should only be by choice.

Plus as hard as it is to say that that person’s business may fold as a result, the reality is that in life people go out of business all the time for various reasons.

If the restaurant down the road is in trouble should people give them money so they don’t close?

If the shop doesn’t have a certain product in because they were unable to source it should you pay for it anyway because they’re losing the income from that particular product?

If the cleaner can’t come into your house then you will be cleaning your own house and thus not need their services for that time. Plus as a cleaner they can pick up where they left off once restrictions are lifted. Ditto for childcare, esp childminders. Nurseries charge a fortune anyway, anyone who thinks that it’s reasonable for nurseries to continue to demand such exorbitant fees even though they’re not providing childcare is unreasonable.

[multivac]

Apparently the "be kind and pay" expectation only flows in one direction it seems!

Erm yes. From the person who has something, to the person who doesn't, generally. See my post above regarding the difference between a 'luxury' and a 'necessity'.

Honestly, if you think that's a killer argument I genuinely despair for humanity...

[beautifulstranger101]

If someone is paying their cleaner but then loses their job as a result of the covid situation, and can no longer afford the cleaner, will the cleaner continue to clean their house for free

haha! exactly- of course they wont.
Apparently the "be kind and pay" expectation only flows in one direction it seems!