To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

[selfemployedconfused]

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

[working5to9]

Cleaners are allowed to come to work. Mine said she would prefer not to and I was reluctant to have her in the house so we agreed she wouldn't and that I would continue to pay her 50%. Real life friends have been flabbergasted if I have mentioned this.
The window cleaner and gardener could have come and done so safely but chose not to so I haven't paid them. The cm shut so I haven't paid her. DD's tutor is offering online sessions so is being paid. DS's tutor is paid for the full term at the beginning of term and sent me a message a week or so before the schools shut to say she was choosing to self-isolate and she refunded me the money for the rest of term that evening. I haven't paid for any of the DC's after school activities for this term either as those activities aren't being offered.
I've had to cancel a couple of DS' tutoring sessions before and his tutor has always been surprised when I've tried to pay her for those sessions. We've eventually agreed to a 50% fee for sessions which we miss.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

@heartsonacake I think we will just have to differ. I think if you are wealthy and employ staff then you should continue to pay them. You don't but also don't use such staff??

Anyway, I know I am top of my cleaner's list to come back too because I paid during lockdown/sickness/holidays.

I suspect there is some correlation between those who offer drinks to their cleaners and those who don't

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

we paid last month in full with the promise that it would secure our place no matter how long places were closed, and this month she asked for full pay again. We just can't afford it, so she's taken us off her books and last month's pay was for nothing

Why was it for nothing, Sandybval? Or rather, why wouldn't she refund you when you've paid for something not received and she's chosen to take you off the books?

My mother has been paying her cleaner in cash, and in hindsight the cleaner never declared a penny of it, so now can’t get the self-employed support. It’s tricky

Obviously this only applies if she's due to pay tax, but if she's evading it that's clearly dishonest ... so maybe it's worth your mum considering whether she wants a dishonest person in a position of trust inside her house?

[mrscampbellblackagain]

@Whathewhatnow I don't pay as nice gesture I pay so my cleaner can afford to feed her family.

Honestly, I am bemused by this thread. I have received negative comments over the many years I have been on here for buying expensive handbags or for paying for private education but can not understand why paying for cleaners in lockdown is quite so divisive.

[Lucyccfc68]

I totally understand cleaners who haven't been able to work over the last 8 weeks, but not sure why gardeners haven't? Mine still works and I generally just see him out of the window and pay him online. No need for him to have any contact with customers.

My window cleaner is a pain in the backside, as he's really old school and only accepts cash. I have asked him so many times over the last 7 years to do online payments. He does a good job though.

I looked for a tutor for my son as he has GCSE's next year and although he is being given work to do, it's very difficult for him to teach himself some of the more complex stuff in maths, physics and chemistry. His tutor is amazing, but lost virtually all his students recently as they were Y11 and Y13 and are not now doing exams. Online tutoring works really well for us.

It's entirely up to each individual if they continue to pay for a service like cleaning even if they don't receive that service at the minute. So many judgemental people about. It's a very difficult time for a lot of people, who could do with not being judged either way.

[Starmer]

We don’t have a cleaner, so don’t know what I would do (probably in the pay camp) but I am shocked by the person who’s stopped their National Trust subscription.... Is that such a huge saving? Do you really not care if organisations like that go bust?

[AnneElliott]

I'm still paying my cleaner. She is not well paid and I'm on full pay.

I also paid the window cleaner but he is back working now anyway.

Gardner's never stopped coming but I would have paid if they hadn't.

[heartsonacake]

but can not understand why paying for cleaners in lockdown is quite so divisive.

mrscampbellblackagain Because they’re not providing a service. I’m not sure what part of that you’re struggling to understand

How about you walk down the street and just give a fiver to everyone you meet? They might be struggling, and it’s the “decent thing to do”, right? 🤦‍♀️ 🙄

Bob down the street once loaned you something. Bob’s now struggling financially. Why don’t you pop over and give him some free money? He’s not providing you a service either but of course it’s just the right thing to do.

[multivac]

Because they’re not providing a service. I’m not sure what part of that you’re struggling to understand

It's just a fundamentally different way of looking at the world. I wouldn't worry about it.

[mrscampbellblackagain]

Because many cleaners have worked for families for many many years. And those who employ them could have easily afforded to continue to pay them.

I am not sure why this is so hard do understand?

But luckily some people who have such strong views on this subject don't actually have cleaners.

I have continued to pay for services during lockdown that I am not receiving because I want those businesses to survive and I am not a twat and can afford it. But hey, please attack me for doing so

[BeardedMum]

I don’t have a cleaner, but I employed a tutor for my ds2 and when we went into lockdown I paid him for an extra month. I figured it would give him some time and it’s dramatic to lose all income in one sweep. I am still working so my income not affected. I also want his goodwill when I will need his tutor services again.

[1981m]

I ve paid mine as I think she's on minimum wage and now can't earn. I think if I have the money and can comfortably pay her so it's a good thing to do, to support her in this situation. She's probably in a lot worse a situation than me and I think it's important to help.

[frasersmummy]

I never even considered paying my ds'stutor.. But then it's not his full time job.. He does it ptime for extra cash for his holidays so I guess he's not missing it this summer

[AldiAisleOfCrap]

@LochJessMonster
I I’m asking for a full refund of my uk holiday cottage that was cancelled.
So did we but they will only move dates. Are you getting a refund?

[Stompythedinosaur]

While I fully accept that people who have lost income need to reduce their outgoings, me and do remain on full pay. If we weren't paying our childminder and the dc's music teacher we would be making a profit out of lockdown, which just doesn't seem right.

[Fromthebirdsnest]

My gardeners still coming as we just don't go in the garden when he's here , our cleaner we are paying half , she's happy with that as we actually pay her over the odds as she is more like a housekeeper she comes twice a week and in the day in home she has a paid lunch with me and my youngest we really miss her and are staying in touch , she did say I didn't need to pay as she's started night shifts at Sainsbury's but I can afford it so I want to help her x

[sixthtimelucky]

I pay my cleaner because she earns a shit wage and the 'lost' money to me is relatively speaking very little. I

If you can afford it then do it. If you can't, fair enough. But don't lie to yourself.

[multivac]

My cleaner is "not providing a service" because she can't. She didn't choose to withdraw her services; I didn't choose to stop making use of her services. We are both at the mercy of circumstances - turns out, my income hasn't changed, hers has. It really wasn't a complicated decision, nor was it one she expected. Our fortunes in a small, but direct way, are interconnected and will remain so into the future.

If it makes any difference - and I really don't see why it should, but mumsnet mindsets are weird - she is a small business owner, and responsible for a number of employees.

This is why I'm not wealthy, perhaps. I'm lucky, though. There's a difference between 'doing the decent thing' and 'not being a cunt', which I hope my children are learning.

[heartsonacake]

mrscampbellblackagain I don’t think you’re a twat. I do think you have a very simplistic, idealistic childlike view of the world.

Socialism doesn’t work for a reason.

[chipsonite]

I’m a self employed cleaner. I’ve always done a tax return and today I received the help from the government that has been promised. None of my clients offered me a retainer.

[heartsonacake]

My cleaner is "not providing a service" because she can't.

multivac Incorrect. Cleaners have been permitted to work this entire time.

Your cleaner chose to be self employed, so she has to deal with the benefits and downfalls of that.

[vanillandhoney]

My cleaner is "not providing a service" because she can't. She didn't choose to withdraw her services; I didn't choose to stop making use of her services.

Cleaners never needed to stop work. The only people who ever needed to stop work were those required to by the government.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

If we weren't paying our childminder and the dc's music teacher we would be making a profit out of lockdown, which just doesn't seem right.

^^ This. I've even got a family members being paid by the government not to work via furlough, who are therefore asking their cleaner and after school babysitter not to come, are not paying them, and are cheerfully told us that they're actually profiting from lockdown, and were a bit surprised that we were not very impressed.