To ask you which life you would choose?

[vinoelle]

Posting for traffic here, sorry. We are trying to make some big life decisions about our future and I'm interested in people's opinions about what they would do/ what's important to them and how they would choose.

Essentially we have the option of moving abroad to the Middle East, for a job that would pay a huge amount of money. Life changing money. It would enable us to be mortgage free/ upgrade to the dream home and send our future children to private school. The weather would also be better, we know people out there so would be with friends, and I wouldn't have to work. Currently pregnant with DC1 so wouldn't have to worry about going back to work and have an easier time for young baby/toddler years. Downsides are it's restrictive in terms of going out and about (couldn't pop to a cafe for example but who knows when that's normal again). And we wouldn't be near family. Would be for 2-5 years. Income approx £300k/year

The other option is DH takes a job here in U.K. we get to stay in our lovely home which we love, altho isn't particularly grand. (Could have better house with option 1). We would be near friends, and nearer to family but still 3 hours drive altho would see maybe once a month or so. I would have to keep my job - which I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad thing. It pays well and is be part time, but it is stressful. But I might end up hating being a SAHM and at least here would have the option to work, whereas in Middle East I'd be literally trapped at home, unable to leave without husband or work. Money would be good, comfortable, but not great. Probably wouldn't be able to afford private school and would have normal mortgage etc but would manage comfortably. Income £130k/year

Wwyd? (Btw I know we are lucky and both are great options - I'm not stealth boasting or trying to be a knob, so pls don't get offended).

Definitely the Middle East. I have spent several years out there in UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and Kuwait and was happy in all of them. Haven't yet been to Saudi but never say never.
Life as a woman is pretty easy.... let me rephrase that....life as a White western woman is easy. I have always felt safer there than I have in the UK (And I'm not talking big cities), I have enjoyed the benefits women get.... seperate (shorter) queues in banks etc
With the exception of Saudi (And even that is changing) you have the freedom to go out where/ when you want, you don't have to cover up (though, be sensible and dress for what is culturally acceptable), there are bars (though mainly in / connected to hotels) and even alcohol shops with the exception of Kuwait and Saudi.
The heat which some have mentioned isnt too much of an issue as everything has A/C and I definitely prefer it.
As an expat wife/stay at home mum you'll get the chance to meet a lot of other expat mum's and there are always a number of clubs and societies to join.. if you have any Scottish connections the Caledonian societies can often be fun. You can decide whether you want to be a 'lady who brunches' or try and find something more constructive (the first entails bubbly brunches, spa treatments, designer handbags etc lol) whilst the second coukd include charity/volunteer work, teaching EFL etc.
Financially, don't go mad. You can have a decent lifestyle including great holidays without blowing everything. Negotiate school fees if necessary as these will be one of your biggest expenses, international schools aren't cheap.
It really is an opportunity you should take, the chance, as a family to experience a new culture and make a decent living.

LTB.

This is a really difficult one as you haven’t had DC yet and don’t know whether you will like being a SAHM.

I have friends who moved there, very happy but in each case they already had young DC and the mum was very keen to stay at home. Actually young DC in the middle east can be easier than at home as it is normal and cheap to have staff - provided you are comfortable with having staff around the whole time.

However if you are not sure you’d like being a SAHM and/or your career is important to you then I would be very cautious. It sounds like an environment where you could feel very bored and trapped very quickly.

Also everyone I know who has moved abroad has stayed longer than planned (except one couple but they disagreed and had a massive row about it).

Will this still be an option in a year or two? If so then I’d say wait, see how you feel after a year of being parents.

Option 2

Working part time is the best of all worlds

Keep some financial independence

Higher income not worth total sacrifice of rights etc

I would not want to live in the Middle East unless I had literally no other option.

I’d go. You can always change your mind. If you don’t do it now you never will.

I had a phone call from a candidate who needed to leave Dubai in 24 hours because his Australian girlfriend had resigned from her sales job, the employer knew the customers would follow her to her new employer so they’d reported her to police for stealing. He was leaving the apartment, the Porsche, furniture the lot and doing a moonlight flit. The police were going to jail her, pending investigation. For changing jobs.

So that’s a no from me

Number 2 for women's rights, risk of having 1st baby and becoming SAHM with no previous experience of this, risks of relationship issues/breakdown, probably moral issues also. I have various friends who've done it and loved it but I've always felt very uncomfortable when visiting.

I'd go and take the money. You can save so much then come back and have the life you want. I've not RTFT, but do you have to stay in Middle East for a minimum amount of time?

My mother has given me very little advice, but one thing she always said, we have a very miserable uncle, and she says that he chose money over love every time, and never ever to do that.

If you love your house stay there.

So many wouldnt go to Saudi because of human rights but are happy enough to holiday in Israel
OP, I would go, its for a few years and westerners usually are in compound where they dont need to follow the local rules. You ll be a SAHM , would that be so bad for the first 5 years of your child's life?

Option 1 - I’m also an expat although not in the Middle East. I wobbled a lot about moving but I figured if I hate it, I can always move back but on the other hand, it’s unlikely the opportunity to relocate will come up again. So I say do it but also don’t over think it and put your energy into making it work when you are there! Good luck with whatever you decide.

Yes I have friends who lived the expat life in middle east when their kids were babies, it's just like being in a village really, a compound with a country club and pool. Not everyone's cup of tea, but you can live a western life, take the dosh and come home to a nice lifestyle. And by the way you don't have to choose between money and love!

I would choose to stay here, but only because I’m a home bod.

As others have said, it depends a great deal on which country in the Middle East that you’re thinking about?

I moved to the ME with my husband's job earlier this year and I absolutely love it. I have an 18 month old and people really love children here! Life with a toddler is much easier here than London.

I say have the adventure and do it! As long as your marriage is strong for all the reasons pp mentioned.

We aren't saving quite as much as we thought we would though as things are so expensive here. Some things we could have made different choices on (like housing), but some things (like food, internet, clothes from familiar brands) are more expensive.

Option 2 stay in the UK, money is not everything.

As others have said the Middle East isn’t a homogenous whole - there are parts I have visited and would absolutely love to live in and others I definitely wouldn’t for all sorts of reasons. I was going by the OPs description of restrictions when I said I wouldn’t choose it...my decision would depend largely on the place.....

I had my first DC a year ago, the other side of the UK from family and tbh it's been a struggle. (I'm 29 and been with DH 6 years) he has a really busy job and needs downtime too.
I thought I would take to motherhood and have another straight away and leave my work. But I cannot wait to go back to work now, have my own life, I'm really excited about it!
Not having my family, none of my friends are mums either. It's been lonely. The support in my city and NCT friends have got me through. Some days going out for coffee with them made my week.
Being a new mum with a busy DH and no support can be difficult. I'm not saying your like me but just something to think about. DC changed my life, more than I thought she would, in a good and bad way.

I wouldn't move to the Middle East for any about of money.

I know someone who did it about 20 years ago after getting married. It was agreed they'd go for 18 months, build up some reserves come back and start a family. Money was great H enjoyed it so under sufferance she agreed to stay for another year, but the end of which she was absolutely climbing the walls. She ended up threatening to leave him if he didn't jack it in and return to the UK with her.

Many years later they are happily married with four kids in the UK with a very healthy bank balance and nice lifestyle, but it could very easily have gone the other way.

Everyone knows expats have a great quality of life in the Middle East!

Not the ones I know.

“The Middle East” is not one big homogeneous place, life can vary wildly, especially for women.

We moved to Saudi with dad when we were young. My mum moved us back within 2 months because they way we were treated was hideous. He stayed in the job for another 6 months but came back as he felt unsafe as an expat over there. He then worked in Oman for 2 years and got on much better.

A colleague of mine moved to Dubai with his wife but they hated it. He was pretty much restricted to the area he lived and worked in, and you don’t have to go too far from the centre strip before you’re in some really awful areas, he couldn’t deal with the rich/poor divide and the way locals were treated. His wife was treated appallingly too.

Don’t underestimate the loss of freedom. No amount of money is worth that.

I genuinely would only do it if it was for a year and I was going alone and coming back every few weeks. I wouldn’t want to live out there and the money isn’t enough of an incentive.

When you say 300k, what do you need to pay out of that?

300k as a total package, where you have to pay out rent, medical insurance and flights home is very different to without rent etc

We lived in the Middle East and our rent was £100k per year.

For me, absolutely no way, not in a million years for any money, regardless of circumstances, would I move to the middle east. Not a chance. The situation is volatile and women's rights are poor.

I've been in the Middle East for 12 years and have loved every minute. Met my husband here, had my two kids here.
People of Mumsnet always bring up women's rights as a deal breaker for whether they would visit/move to the Middle East and I don't know why. My only guess is that they believe all the sensationalised stories on media they read.
Obviously it does depend which country you're moving to, but I have found ME far more accommodating for women than the UK. I've never been given a dirty look for breast feeding in public (I have in the UK), there are baby changing facilities in the men's toilets (never in the male toilets in the UK) - the list goes on.
I wouldn't base anything on the opinions of people from the internet who, by large, have never even been to visit.