To ask you which life you would choose?

[vinoelle]

Posting for traffic here, sorry. We are trying to make some big life decisions about our future and I'm interested in people's opinions about what they would do/ what's important to them and how they would choose.

Essentially we have the option of moving abroad to the Middle East, for a job that would pay a huge amount of money. Life changing money. It would enable us to be mortgage free/ upgrade to the dream home and send our future children to private school. The weather would also be better, we know people out there so would be with friends, and I wouldn't have to work. Currently pregnant with DC1 so wouldn't have to worry about going back to work and have an easier time for young baby/toddler years. Downsides are it's restrictive in terms of going out and about (couldn't pop to a cafe for example but who knows when that's normal again). And we wouldn't be near family. Would be for 2-5 years. Income approx £300k/year

The other option is DH takes a job here in U.K. we get to stay in our lovely home which we love, altho isn't particularly grand. (Could have better house with option 1). We would be near friends, and nearer to family but still 3 hours drive altho would see maybe once a month or so. I would have to keep my job - which I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad thing. It pays well and is be part time, but it is stressful. But I might end up hating being a SAHM and at least here would have the option to work, whereas in Middle East I'd be literally trapped at home, unable to leave without husband or work. Money would be good, comfortable, but not great. Probably wouldn't be able to afford private school and would have normal mortgage etc but would manage comfortably. Income £130k/year

Wwyd? (Btw I know we are lucky and both are great options - I'm not stealth boasting or trying to be a knob, so pls don't get offended).

I'd go with option one. I live in ME (in KSA) and have a job if my own, it is untrue to say women have no job prospects or rights, things have changed in the last three years. It's not where it could be, but it's getting there, slowly.

DH works here and is doing well, we are a saving a lot, especially right now with lockdown as we are not able to leave. The great thing about being in ME is that you find you meet and make like-minded friends who quickly become 'like family'.

I've lived in ME for 12 years, some in KSA and majority in another country, if you have any questions PM me and I'm happy to answer.

It might depend where in the middle east.

If Saudi Arabia, no, not a chance.

If there are any wobbles in your marriage at all then also no.

If you would really be stuck at home with a baby, no job, unable to see friends and family and without the possibility of making other mum friends, then no, I don't think I would.

Five years is actually quite a long time.

I would go, for a few years and would rent out your house so you can come back. Be aware that when you come back life will have moved on though

I would go with option 1. I moved to Dubai with my husband in 2016 and stayed there till May 2019. During this time life there was brilliant.

My husbands company funded my daughters (aged4) private education in a British curriculum school. They gave us an allowance for accommodation and vehicles. We lived 10 minutes from the beach and marina and had our pick of cuisines from around the world on nights/days out (the food is amazing there). People there are extremely friendly and have a huge amounts of kindness towards children. I can't tell you the amount of times my daughter got free treats (ice cream, sweets etc) from staff at restaurants just to put a smile on her face. The Arab people also show a lot of kindness to mothers/pregnant women. Everyone in Dubai has to have medical insurance which gives you access to amazing hospitals which look and feel more like hotels.

Shopping malls and stores have everything there like how they do in the UK eg name brand goods and retail stores. Living there was like being on a holiday as the weather was lovely. In summer it gets extremely hot (49 degrees or there about) but that was when we used to come back to the UK and spend time with family.

By us living in Dubai it allowed us to save huge amounts of money that we would never of been able to in the UK. We were able to pay off our first property and have since bought another house.

Expats over there told us once you stay here for a while it can be hard to go back to your home country and always used to think yea right as soon as I can I'll be back in the UK. Now I see that they were right because we really miss it. I still love the Uk because that's home but atleast we got to have that experience. Ultimately it's your choice 🙂

Two. But then 1 sounds too much like being a kept woman with no personal financial security in a region where women’s rights are compromised.

OP says she would have a support network in the Middle East, so that’s not really an issue.

Having your first baby is hard, it’ll be a shock to your system wherever you are. Probably a good idea to have the baby here in the UK and get settled. Maybe think about moving once you’ve established a good routine, and feel less sleep deprived/a bit less like a zombie! Good luck x

I would be very tempted by option 1 honestly but I would have serious reservations because of my lack of rights and what could happen if I were to become unhappy in my marriage. Some things to think about:

1. Once there, would you be allowed to leave the country/bring your child home etc. without your husband's permission (short term for visits or long term)

1. What if he changes his mind about coming home?

1. What are your long term plans for career especially if you take a break?

1. How would you be treated in event of an affair or divorce?

With the best will in the world, moving likely involves handing your husband almost all the cards and control over your life for a long time to come. That's fine when things are all dandy but you never know what's around the corner and £300k is not such silly money that it necessarily justifies the risk.

I recommend getting some advice on the legalities before deciding.

Definitely 2. I would absolutely hate 1.

It totally depends on the country, you need to tell us to get sensible advice. There's a big difference between Saudi and Dubai for example.

Also how well do you know your husband? Have you known him a long time and fully understand his attitude to women and to domestic burden, childcare etc? He would need to be your best friend and your biggest supporter. I know people who've had a terrible time marriage wise in the ME but others who are very happy.

Like PP I would never live (or even holiday in ) a country with restrictions on women

You're expecting DC1. Wait until your baby is born, and is 6 months old, say, and then decide.

Life will be very different a year from now and your whole way of making decisions/what is important could well feel very different.

For example, it might seem much clearer what you should do (whether A or B!)

Loving all the positive stories about the Middle East! I couldn’t agree more. Much better to experience something first hand than just read all the vile and completely untrue islamophobic propaganda out there. The people I met in the Middle East at school are my lifelong friends, and my parents are still in touch with all of their friends too. There was a wonderful Middle Eastern community with lots of ex pats as part of it. We were truly welcomed. The Middle East has some of the most friendly and kind people I have ever encountered in my life which is why we will never stop going there.

Well, it’s kind of like lockdown, you need to think about how to unwind it! If you went and Hated it, what would you agree with your husband to do? Would you all head home after a few months if you did, it would he stay? As others say, your relationship has to be very, very strong as you would have zero rights, you couldn’t up and leave without his permission if it came to splitting. And what about your job, if you gave it up for a few years can you pick up where you left off when you come back to the uk? What if the post is extended, would you take it and send the child to school there?
Would you have the opportunity to visit and do they have a community of new mothers that you could join? A newborn in a compound with open space might be okay, a high rise downtown not so much. You will be sacrificing a lot, go in with your eyes open. Is it possible now for your family to visit you?

I've travelled around the ME for work. There is no way I'd move my family there - no matter what the money on offer.

Despite what people say to try and excuse what goes on, the facts are these: Women are second (or third) class citizens, there's overt racism everywhere, and most of the economies are built on nothing more than modern slavery. And I wish people would stop saying KSA is "getting better". They only announced LAST WEEK that they will stop executing children. But they'll still allow stoning to death, heads being chopped off without fair trials and stuff like that. And don't forget that even in the "moderate" places you can still be arrested for simply having an opinion.

If you can live with that, go for it.

Which country is important? It’s nothing to do with islamaphobia, but if it involves having to live in an expat gated compound (as some employers will insist) or somewhere hugely unstable I wouldn’t do it.

How can anyone give advice,you haven’t said which Country!!!

As many others have said , it very much depends on where in the ME you mean and the sort of lifestyle you want. You really need to do a lot of research on this.

My DH considered a job in Qatar once but the more we looked into it the more we realised it wasn't for us and even the initial carrot of a fantastic salary wasn't all it first seemed. The ex pat compounds offer a certain way of living which you have to be into. We would have found it a bit restrictive and cliquey! It's hard to really interact with the locals.

If you decide to go for it be sure about your exit strategy if it's not what you want e.g . can you leave with a notice period, keep your passport, travel, transfer funds etc ?

I wouldn't move to Dubai for any money. Horrible place.

Uk over the Middle East. I could never live there.

"Money would be good, comfortable, but not great"
...
"Income £130k/year"
😂😂😂😂😂 fuck me, in what world is that not great money?!

Much better to experience something first hand than just read all the vile and completely untrue islamophobic propaganda out there.

I can assure you my deeply unfun experience of living in the UAE for a couple of years had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or Islamophobia. You're living in a superficially Western-friendly dictatorship with a terrible environmental and human rights record, no freedom of the press, and with a godawful samey climate, and a particular kind of British person in residence as an expat. Depending on the kind of person you are, there is very little to do -- in terms of my interests, there was nothing. It was a brilliant place to travel from, but that's probably not realistic with a young baby and in the Coronavirus/post-Coronavirus climate.

The money did not make up to it for us, and we both quit and moved to the UK.

In your shoes, I would stay in the UK and keep working. In my experience, being a SAHM suits very few people.

All the Saudi Arabia bashing is completely incorrect - has anyone even been there recently or are you just believing everything you read?

In KSA you can go out without your husband and most women do! It’s utter nonsense that there is no mobility for women. You’re all reading stuff from ten years ago no doubt. Women can drive, go out without a male, vote, go to university - in fact there were recently more female graduates than male. You can also leave the country without a male if you are over 21. I wish people would get their facts right.

Depends a lot on the country. No money in the world would take me to Saudi, not just because of their treatment of women but also because of their actions in Yemen and their general approach to human rights. No interest in the blood money. Other countries may be different.

I lived in Jordan for a year and enjoyed it. I actually really like the Middle East.

Money would be good, comfortable, but not great. Probably wouldn't be able to afford private school and would have normal mortgage etc but would manage comfortably. Income £130k/year

I don’t think you are stealth boasting at all - but please understand and acknowledge that £130k a year is great and well beyond ‘comfortable.’ Plenty of people live happily in the UK on much (much much much) less than that - I wouldn’t move to the Middle East and live such a restrictive life when you’ve got more than enough to live very well here.