AIBU or is my neighbour

[Unluckyinlove2]

Just need some perspective at the moment. I live in tiny Top floor flat. Have 2 kids aged 2 & 3. I’m a single parent working full time from home due to what’s happening. It’s a shit show. They don’t do much all day but watch tv as I try to work between feeding them and taking care of their needs. We might do some lego or some jigsaws but nothing structured.

Since lockdown has began my new neighbours below me have knocked on my door every single week to inform me that they can’t get any work done due to the jumping and noise my kids are making. I apologised every time and explained I’m trying my best and that I had never had a noise complaint before I’m assuming cos we were always out. She seemed quite understanding but She has now resorted to leaving me written notes outside my door still complaining. To make matters worse she has filed a formal complaint to the council.

I can’t see any way around this. I’ve tried my best to get them to stop running around. I put them to bed at 6pm so this is daytime noise. I’m trying my best in an already difficult situation. If this pandemic wasn’t happening my kids would be in nursery and I would be at work. Instead we are cooped up in a flat with no garden constantly worrying about if our movements are too loud.

AIBU on telling them to back off and be a bit more understanding cos at this point i feel like they are bullying me

YANBU - you can only do your best. This whole situation is awful for everyone and your neighbours are extremely lucky if the worst consequence they are suffering from the lockdown is that their home isn't peaceful and silent. It is not reasonable for them to expect young children to be silent all the time, and obviously there is nowhere else they can be other than there. If they want to live somewhere silent they need to move to a detached house. If they can't afford that they need to deal with the fact that human beings do make noise.

Also Im trying the daily walks but some days I’m too shattered.
and you put the kids to bed at 6pm!

Ignore the neighbours for a minute, it's your children I feel very sorry for.
If you are working from home, clearly you are not doing anything physical, you need to take the poor kids out, no wonder they are jumping up the walls.

It will be much better for your own mental health, you'll all sleep better too, they need to be out at the very least 1 hour a day!

(yes, if there was a full lockdown, they'll survive, but until then, make the most of what freedom they still have)

How many hours a day do you need to work? Even on a 8 hour shift, you still have more than a few hours to exercise your kids. It is tiring, they need to "help" when you do chores (many 2 years old love dusting for example...), but that's only more hours with you. If you do 4 hours once they are in bed, it's already 2 hours morning and 2 hours afternoon they are left alone watching tv. It's already a lot for such young kids. None of my kids would have watched tv for more than 5 minutes at that age..

But seriously, you need to take them out.

OP you have my total sympathy. You sound like you're doing a great job.

Do you /your neighbours own/ rent your flats?

I would suggest you call citizens advice (we had a similar issue recently and they offered great, free advice).

You may also want to send a response back to your neighbour via recorded delivery to explain that you are trying your best to limit the noise your young children make during daytime hours but during lockdown this is extremely difficult etc etc.

Use understanding but firm language and perhaps throw in a quote from the Westminister GOV website that confirms that the sound of children is not antisocial behaviour. You could suggest they invest in earplugs for the remainder of lockdown as whilst you want the issue to be resolved ASAP there is little that can be done your side until nursery is open again etc.

I would also suggest calling the council to report this ongoing harassment to you (it could be considered anti social behaviour of them). The more parties you engage with on this the better for support.

Try not to let these people bully you; any reasonable adult would understand the enormous stress a single mother is under atm caring for not one but TWO tiny children! unbelievable how unreasonable some people are.

Honestly, your neighbours sound like total twats. Just reach out for the support you're entitled to, I bet once you speak with the council they will be able to offer you much better advice for peace of mind...

What did your housing officer say? In my experience there’s nothing the council can do in regards to normal noise associated with children.
I would ask your neighbour to refrain from coming to your door, leaving you written notes or banging when your children wake in the night. Tell them to continue directing their complaints to the council instead.
Used to live in the top floor of an old flat- with three young kids. We had a good understanding neighbour below. Stompeez slippers seemed to help soften their run around stampy feet noises. And extra rugs.
New neighbours weren’t so impressed. We would all be out the house before 8am, home after 4, kids were in bed for 6.30. My kids giggling/crying and feet walking noises were the main issues.
Council weren’t interested in their complaints. As it was deemed “normal”. (And they complained, repeatedly).
I know you say your shattered but try get into a routine. Early morning walks after breakfast rain or shine may lift your mood and energy levels for the day. Try plan out activities the kids can do by themselves with you working beside them.
Are you able to work early mornings and or in the evenings when the kids are in bed?

Do your neighbours always work from home or is this just because of the lockdown too? If it is, it is absolutely not your problem. They can buy earplugs in any chemist. I would get the housing officer to ask what measures they have taken themselves, and if they are running a business from home do they need permission and have they got it? Lots of people have small children and children make noise, especially if they're not going out as much as usual.

I feel sorry for you, because what can you do? Nothing really. Perhaps take them out for an hours walk after lunch or breakfast to wear them out? Ignore the neighbour as theres nothing you can do.

Theres normal flat noise and there is what is clearly continuous. You need to take some personal responsibility for the noise they're making.

Plenty of online stores are open, not just Amazon. Buy thick rubber mats or a large heavy rug. Even if it's just to cover a particular 'high traffic area' where they typically bounce around.

I know parents sometimes feel indignant about it but it is what it is and YABU.

Bare feet?

I sympathise with both you and your neighbour. My DM's life was made hell by children above her - laminate flooring the real bugger. You're doing all you can, but can you reframe your job so you're with your DC for more of their day? Can you speak to your manager about it if you're not the manager yourself, so you could get out with them once a day and play with them at other times? If they're in bed by 6pm then can you work a couple of hours after that?

Wow @SouthsideOwl not a lot of sympathy coming from your end is there?! How many toddlers in your house?

OP I think it works in your favour that they are new- speak to your housing officer, tell them they are harassing you daily and banging on your floors aggressively. Tell the neighbors you are doing your best and will no longer engage with them. Do that in writing if you can then keep a copy. Then don't answer the door. Keep a diary of anything that happens with them, any notes they put through, any visits after you've asked them to leave you alone.

You're in such a hard situation is there any chance of doing your role more in the evening, or taking furlough?

I agree with other posters that you could counter complain about them banging on the ceiling in the night etc. Make a note of this every time.

It's rubbish - we have two DS with SEN and are struggling with noise with us all being home all day.

Your neighbours are being a bit unreasonable considering they know you're unable to leave your house. I know your tired but I think taking your DC out for the daily exercise might help, it'll also be a change of scenery for you all and fresh air.

Council/housing officers can and will act on 'family noise' if it is disturbing the peace of neighbours. Our previous housing association would come out with recording equipment to measure the decibels.

@JasonPollack and clearly you have had issues in a flat before?

The neighbour has clearly tried to indicate they would appreciate some sort of action. I agree that with children some sort of noise is expected over and above the usual flat noise, but people tend to underestimate the amount of noise children make in spaces which transmit vibrations- so yes, I think it's unreasonable to just think 'well, tough'.

I don't see why making an effort to attempt to alleviate the problem is seen as farcical.

If the neighbour is 'banging on the ceiling at night' as in...late at night, then that's obviously not acceptable. But I can sympathise with them if it's a reaction at the time of the noise when you cannot bring yourself to drag yourself and communicate with a brick wall again. Sorry! 🙏

Your neighbour sounds like a total prize, OP.
You have my sympathy trying to do two roles at once with no help and someone adding to your stress.

Ok OP, I missed this update:

'To the posters suggesting I get rugs I have them all over the flat. They have also complained about my kid waking up at night and crying. To which they bang back up as if that will help him back to sleep 🙄

Nonetheless I’m so desperate at this point I will be looking to try get some rubber mats that some have suggested'

I eat my words. Seems like you're trying. Apologies.

Is there a possibility that the windows are the culprit? I know it's sounds mad but it's amazing how sound can travel between floors in some buildings via gaps in insulation.

Thank you for all your replies. Was doing the kids tea and bath time. Some really good suggestions from some helpful posters. Regarding our routine.. we are still waking up same time between 6/7am and going down for 6pm. I’m very strict about what time they go down as it’s the only time I have to do housework/prepare meals for the next day. I’m not working 8 hours straight I have mentioned I’m in and out of working and taking care of them. I will defiantly start taking them out everyday as I think that will burn some energy. My kids are not climbing up the walls it’s not total destruction here! I have been very understanding to my neighbours and already made changes but nothing seems enough. My kids wear thick slippers all day in an already hot flat. I’m constantly telling them to walk and not run. Im on my feet as I soon as one of them starts to cry. At this point I starting to feel like they are been unfair and unreasonable. I was already letting the whole banging up thing go. But this constant stream of letters is taking its toll. They are renting the flat from a lease holder. One is a student and the other works I believe. They moved in 6 months ago. My flat is a council flat.

I've had kids of the same age in a flat (obviously not on lockdown)
I really would do my chores and cooking with them, and free some time for when they are in bed.

Climbing the wall doesn't mean destroying your place! Kids are like puppies, they need to run around.

I have a fair bit of sympathy for your neighbours as we live in a flat and had similar with a young child for a long time (until they grew up). The noise can drive you crazy. That said seems like you are doing what you can if your kids are wearing slippers and you have rugs etc.

To go to the next level, I recommend thinking about how you can make your floor surface absorb sound more, the rubber jigsaw mats are a good idea, if anyone you knew had a spare rug going you could put it under a rug you have or you could buy underlay - it can be pretty cheap, this will absorb more sound and vibration. Do try to let the kids get a good run about outdoors if you can during the day.

Their complaining about children crying is batshit.

It is very unlikely they will get any satisfaction from the council or landlords regarding ordinary family noise, so as upsetting as they might be to you to receive complaint, they are essentially powerless in this. I'd recommend that you politely reassure them you are doing what you can and try not to give it much more thought.

Really sorry you have such horrible neighbours. They are completely unreasonable. No one is choosing to WFH right now and everyone with half a brain knows it’s not ideal and compromises are needed for this time. It’s not forever.

It sounds like your doing everything you can. The fact that they complain about night waking shows how unrealistic they are.

The council will surely ignore or just go through the motions. I like the suggestion from @HavenDilemma about putting your side in writing and considering a counter claim of harassment.

Hang in there. It sounds like you’re doing brilliantly.

You live in flats, she should live in a detached house if she doesn't want any noise from attached neighbours. Suggest she buys/rents a house in the middle of nowhere.
Personally I'd just ignore or ask her to suggest what you can do to make things better for her. Could you take your children out for exercise for an hour 2pm after they'd had a lunch break so they can have an hour's peace.
TBH they'll have to suck it up.

father not in picture does provide CM but does not see kids his own personal choice. Work wise I’ve only been in this role for a year. I’m afraid to ask them to make any adjustments. Im already worried that I could potentially end up losing my job cos of Covid 19. I’ve worked so hard to secure a role that can give us some sort of future. 2 years ago I didn’t have a pot to piss in.

I would ask her not to post any more notes as you consider it a health hazard at this time of lockdown. I would also ignore her and just continue to do your best. As long as the children are not running riot. However you may want to be proactive and contact your council asking what you can do. Tell them you feel like you're being harassed by your complaining neighbour now, as you have two young children in a flat, just doing what young children do. Ask them if they have any advice. Put this in writing so you have evidence in case your neighbour continues to complain.

I would buy a crap load of those foam alphabet tiles and put them everywhere of you can. You say the flat is hot, do they actually need slippers maybe barefoot or socks could be quieter. I am sure once you show the Council that you have made reasonable efforts they will be understanding.

I can't see the council acting on the complaint anyway - you're very much talking about ordinary living noises. It's much more likely that - if you ask - the council will warn the neighbours that they're harassing you. There's no way you're breaching any noise regulations for example. Please don't worry - you absolutely can't be in trouble over this.

2 & 3 year olds on your own AND working full time. You deserve a clap 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Maybe ask your neighbour what their suggestion is? Tape the kids to the ceiling? Bungee them out the window? Lock them on the roof? Seriously what are you supposed to do??