Biological sex - a different view point

[ahenderson270]

geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=12697

We don't often get the alternative side to the long-standing debate on here regarding biological sex to that presented in such a way that seems to without doubt, define male and female.

AIBU to ask if it's ok for us to try and consider beyond that? That perhaps if we try perhaps some middle ground can be discovered so the nasty name calling (TERF TRA etc ) can be put to bed and we can work towards unified solutions to issues affecting the 'person'?

Sorry but all that told me is that intersex conditions exist.
I knew that already.
Nothing in that link proved humans can change sex.

@PityParty4one does it not give some room for allowance that actually no one fully knows their own actual biological sex without examining their own chromosomes and as such you, i nor anyone has any right to tell anyone else what their biological sex is.

If sex is so mutable, can I identify as intersex? I bet not! Genderqueer yes but intersex no. Why is that, do you suppose? Could it be that even the various charity orgs know the difference between gender ideas in the head and reproductive sex in the body?

Your post is very patronising OP.

PityParty4onedoes it not give some room for allowance that actually no one fully knows their own actual biological sex without examining their own chromosomes and as such you, i nor anyone has any right to tell anyone else what their biological sex is.

Nope I have birthed 4 DC I know what sex I am.
People dont choose their sex and it cannot be changed. The assistance of intersex people has nothing to do with being trans.
Next you will be telling me people have a lady brain.

I genuinely don't mean to be patronising - I'm honestly trying to open this discussion up to an alternative angle because the current one is getting nowhere fast.

Thank you to the poster who offered alternative reading I'll give that a really good look.

Sorry what's the alternative angle?

@PityParty4one so if your chromosomes indicated otherwise you would dismiss that because your birthing of children determines sex? I'm not having a go I'm genuinely asking your view point.

@TheQueenBeyondTheWall

Anything at all to the unhelpful and unkind one that both sides seem to have decided to entrench themselves on.

Are you suggesting someone could be chromosomally Male and still give birth, @ahenderson270? Because I don’t think that is possible.

no one fully knows their own actual biological sex without examining their own chromosomes

Nah, that’s a load of bollocks. The world isn’t teeming with intersex people who don’t know they’re intersex.

Anecdata: I know one intersex person and it was diagnosed at birth due to genital abnormalities. I imagine that’s the most common route to diagnosis. Others might be diagnosed around puberty age when it doesn’t progress as normal, presumably.

But this idea of the world being full of intersex people who just don’t know it because they’re asymptomatic... nah.

The fact I have a vagina and a uterus tells me I am biologically female.
The fact DP has a penis tells me he is biologically male.

that thread explains how a person can be intersex, which is very rare and has nothing to do with the trans debate.

Biological sex is a fact, it’s in your genetic make up, your physical anatomy, your hormone and endocrine system.
It cannot be changed.

Gender is a personal preference, you can identify, dress, look and act however you choose and however makes you happy.

I don’t understand why so many people seem to have such trouble distinguishing between biological sex and gender.

The organisations that represent the intersex community have repeatedly asked not to be drawn into the trans debate.

The see themselves and their issues as separate and wholly different to trans.

The trans community should respect this and not piggy back or co-op intersex issues.

Someone on twitter has claimed they have been tested as xx despite being "assigned" male at birth I believe

You will forgive me if my eyes roll out the building

And yes I'm aware intersex conditions exist and I dont believe a penis can be female

FYI trans people I've spoken to IRL agree with me that you cannot actually change sex as such you can be surgically altered so your outside matches your feelings inside

I never reply to these types of threads, but the constant flaming arguments on what constitutes biological sex causes me concern re healthcare.

There are medical conditions that are more prevalent to the different biological sexes. There are medical conditions that cause intersex (rare, but yes it exists). But if for example a man has a biological sex that is scientifically female, then they have to have accessibility to screening that is related to health conditions more prevalent to their biological sex.

Or if even worse, we stop screening diseases on the grounds of known risk groups, ages, biology - we are going backwards on extending life.

We have to treat the different chromosomes mixes as medical. Quite frankly I don't give a fuck if it gets rebranded, as long as everyone is given the right to prevent disease.

To ignore or dismiss biological sex or the different chromosome mix ....puts people at risk of diseases and treatable conditions.

you, i nor anyone has any right to tell anyone else what their biological sex is

Nobody tells anyone what their bio sex is. Its observed at birth.

Obviously it's not true that nobody knows their biological sex, because intersex conditions do usually become apparent - either at birth or at puberty or at the latest upon trying unsuccessfully to conceive. People who suspect that they are intersex should indeed have chromosomal testing because some intersex conditions are part of metabolic disorders which need treatment to avoid seriously endangering physical health.

It's vanishingly unlikely that a mature adult who has gathered children or been pregnant is intersex.

Intersex charities and organisations are clear that intersex conditions are unrelated to transgender identities.

isna.org/faq/printable/

I already know that DSD's exist; I still don't understand why my rights don't count, or why safeguarding can be thrown out?

@JollyAndBright agree. They are two very different things, and I dont know why its so hard to understand.

Intersex and trans is STILL different

*fathered not gathered

Give your head a wobble, OP. If you are fertile there is no doubt about your chromosomes.

The trans community should respect this and not piggy back or co-op intersex issues.

refs please.

PityParty4oneso if your chromosomes indicated otherwise you would dismiss that because your birthing of children determines sex?

2 sexes exist. Males and females. As females are the only sex class to be able to carry and birth a child then that puts me in the female sex class.

It's really simple.
Yes I know you will attempt all kinds of mental gymnastics to get round it but it's a fact.
Every human on earth was born from a female. Not 1 human has ever being birthed by a male.