Biological sex - a different view point

[ahenderson270]

geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=12697

We don't often get the alternative side to the long-standing debate on here regarding biological sex to that presented in such a way that seems to without doubt, define male and female.

AIBU to ask if it's ok for us to try and consider beyond that? That perhaps if we try perhaps some middle ground can be discovered so the nasty name calling (TERF TRA etc ) can be put to bed and we can work towards unified solutions to issues affecting the 'person'?

Too busy looking for Nemo to worry about toilet facilities in the Great Barrier Reef, I expect, EndoplasmicReticulum

They know where their priorities lie.

Transmen are not women. Should be trans women 😊

Oh god they were a right size too! Maybe I am male after all.

Any men reading this and picturing a man squeezing a large baby out of a narrow male pelvis will be doubling up on their condoms, for fear of getting pregnant. 🤣

Can we leave giving birth out of it please, you don’t need to have given birth to prove you are a woman.

Delete the thread, that points out that human genotype is real. Okay .

This is true Seren however the OP decided that me giving birth to 4 dc did not mean I was female as my chromosome haven't been tested.

Agreed Seren, however unlike the claim of a PP, everyone who has biologically parented a child knows beyond question what sex they are.

No - but giving birth certainly suggests that you aren't a man, Dippitty

Though you may be a mushroom.

So is Trans Rights Activist considered an insult now? Is it regularly used in a derogatory way with implied threats? Do trans rights activists insist we use a different term?

www.elitedaily.com/p/9-trans-rights-activists-you-should-know-about-on-the-transgender-day-of-visibility-16994303

I find these faux-confused 'debates' about the realities sex disrespectful and unkind towards the many women and men who struggle with infertility and subfertility (I was in the latter group due to PCOS). And heartbreaking to see children being pushed towards infertility rather than being encouraged to realise that they don't need to obey gender stereotypes.

Can we leave giving birth out of it please, you don’t need to have given birth to prove you are a woman

Sorry, but you still need to be a woman to be able to give birth. Though that doesn’t mean women who are infertile aren’t women.

I only came here for the clownfish

Nice dismissal of the infertile.

We're talking hard evidence of having XX or XY without having your chromosomes tested, here. You need to read the thread, or at least the OP's batshit assertion, before taking unnecessary offence.

Melrose Jeez I have given you mushrooms!!
You women are never happy

I want fish!! and Asparagus

You can’t change your sex period, you cant change chromozones, so your either born with the XY or XX that’s a fact, it does define what you are but doesn’t have to define what you want to be. You can identify as what you want. I have no issues if someone what’s to be called her or him or both, if that’s how you feel then that’s fine. It’s like names people like to be referred by different versions of thier names. You can remove and add genitalia but it doesn’t change your biological dna. I’m good if people want to identify as animals etc... man sometimes I identify as a mug b3cause I feel like one 😊

There is no different viewpoint. It is what it is.

no one fully knows their own actual biological sex I can give it a good guess.

Where did OP go? Maybe they got enough screenshots already. waves to the watchers

Did you know that you can eat clownfish? Apparently it’s a difficult fish to cook and not very popular because it has slimy skin. 🤢

no one fully knows their own actual biological sex

But everyone knows the sex of their birth parents.

no one fully knows their own actual biological sex without examining their own chromosomes

That's not true, though, is it.
If you menstruate, you have a uterus, and you are female. If you've been pregnant.
If you have a penis and testicles, you are male. If you've ejaculated.
These are easily observable sex characteristics that don't require a karyotyping test - they're conclusive.

You've not understood what sex IS. It isn't JUST chromosomes. No biologist ever claimed it was.

Most animals have a sex. Plants too.
Male and female isn't just a human condition.
Sex is about how (most) species reproduce. Large gametes, fertilised by small gametes.

We're not a special species in that this happens to us too.

Its never once occurred to me, and I'm sure it hasn't to you, to think "ah, well, now humans have 46 chromosomes. So this person here with 45, or 47 is therefore not quite human. And perhaps they kind of disprove humans exist at all. And perhaps, none of us can ever really be sure we are human. We might be another species. So perhaps we should be much more flexible about considering things like human rights. Perhaps they don't matter, seeing as I'm confused about what a human actually is."

Nope. I know that what is the NORM for human chromosomal makeup, does not exclude the individuals who have exceptional chromosomes. They are still human, because the definition of human doesn't rest entirely upon merely counting chromosomes.

Likewise, the definition of sex does not depend entirely upon chromosomes either.

Sex in humans us determined by whether a person has developed the anatomy to make eggs, or to make sperm. That's basically it. The genetic blueprint of our chromosomes drives this development, yes, but like all instructions, sometimes things don't quite work out.
Whether that anatomical development was halted, or incomplete, or unusual is not of importance in determining sex.

If you have an abnormality of development, you are either female with an abnormality, or male with an abnormality of development.

The existence of people with sex developmental disorders no more challenges the binary existence of sex, than the existence of people with missing or supernumerary chromosome disorders challenges the existence of the human race.

@ahenderson270
Did you miss the question SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius asked at 21:09?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGeniusWed 05-Feb-20 21:09:45

Are you suggesting someone could be chromosomally Male and still give birth, ahenderson270? Because I don’t think that is possible.

I've reposted it above just in case you did as your OP posted at 20:52 is getting filled up with lots of posts already and an MRI scan!

Many thanks in advance!

This interests me as - although I am very about the current trend for being non-binary etc, I have often wondered about the definition of male vs female. I did psychology A Level back in the early 80s and remember a very interesting video on the subject, where they discussed what makes you M or F.

As OPs link says - there are other factors then genitalia. All embryos start off with the same bits and they either drop to become testes or stay inside to be ovaries. Usually that matches the XY template and all is fine. Sometimes it goes wrong and you get intersex babies - but the video then went on to talk about hormones, and suggested the real definition should be how your body reacts when injected with a pregnancy hormone. 'Males' rejected it, 'females' enhanced it. It was fascinating.

I think the link shows how various factors can combine to create confusion in a person - where maybe one aspect doesn't match their physical appearance. Surely that's interesting - and could explain variations in sexuality, the 'spectrum' theory, transgender (probably rarely) and so on?

If you are easily fertile and can create or carry babies then it may be that your physical aspects are cut and dried - but we're all different. I am female and have no confusion - but have always been very 'unhormonal' with light periods, no PMT ever, a fairly androgynous figure - and it turned out - an early menopause. I had to have donor eggs to conceive and hormones to help me carry my DCs, although my ovaries kicked in and made their own pregnancy hormones after the first trimester (which is normal). That doesn't make me anything other than female - but if you want to define female by the ability to conceive then there is clearly a huge spectrum of variables out there......

Nice dismissal of the infertile. You raise a good point. Trans issues do dismiss infertility.
Infertile women can’t get pregnant. Infertile men can’t get a woman pregnant.
You don’t suddenly become a man because you can’t get pregnant though. There are many reasons women can’t have babies. There is only one reason men can’t obviously.