Biological sex - a different view point

[ahenderson270]

geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=12697

We don't often get the alternative side to the long-standing debate on here regarding biological sex to that presented in such a way that seems to without doubt, define male and female.

AIBU to ask if it's ok for us to try and consider beyond that? That perhaps if we try perhaps some middle ground can be discovered so the nasty name calling (TERF TRA etc ) can be put to bed and we can work towards unified solutions to issues affecting the 'person'?

Only two sexes op. Male and female. People with intersex conditions are also male, or female. Stop trying to use intersex conditions to push transgender ideology.

It is hard to have a reasonable debate when one side says that the other should be raped or die in a grease fire, for stating their view.

Ah, you mean the violence threatened by TRAs (typically male bodied ones) towards adult human females who object to overruling biological facts with madness.

Indeed, @ExEUCitizen.

In the spirit of this thread I think I'd like to propose some other discussions. Like 'The earth is round - a different viewpoint'. Or 'the earth orbits the sun - a different viewpoint'. Seeing as we're trying to change science.

That case about the xy swyer syndrome was specifically chromosomal mosaicism.

If you read the paper, the ovary cells had X chromosomes. It's a unique case of both intersex and also a case of chromosomal mosaicism.

It actually proves that sex is binary.

I know of one person who is truly intersex, ie they have both male & female organs internally.

Other than someone with the same physical condition, no.

I was told by a TRA on Twitter (a transwoman for full disclosure) that I am classified as intersex because I have PCOS. Never mind the fact that I menstruate and have birthed two children.

OP you might want to read this piece which dismissed the notion that genuine intersex conditions are in any way “common”.

www.leonardsax.com/how-common-is-intersex-a-response-to-anne-fausto-sterling/

@NeurotrashWarrior

"It actually proves that sex is binary."

Yes. But they won't listen.

iT'S ALL A uNicOrN mErMaID rAInBoW you see.

Truth is now just subjective, innit?

Honestly, why does that matter?

If someone wants to identify as a fruit salad and that makes them happy, comfortable and they're not hurting anyone else, who am I to shit on their parade?

Literally why do all these middle aged women care so much about other people and how they identify? Take your life crisis somewhere else and take a day off would you.

I'm sure people would always try to prove "you can only be hetero, homosexual people are just wrong" for a long time before it became OK.

Honestly I'm a straight woman and can't imagine what these people are feeling but it it makes them happy surely we can just let them live.

Statistics of violence again transgender people are shocking and middle aged women being horrible and teaching their kids to be intolerant bullies doesn't help. Get a grip Mumsnet.

Maijk

Why do you assume we are all middle aged?
What's even is middle aged anyway,?

maijk

You ok hun?

@Miajk - I care because young people are being told things that are scientifically inaccurate - like human sex isn’t binary, you can be ‘born in the wrong body’ and you can change your biological sex. A neo-vagina formed out of an inverted penis is exactly the same as a female vagina. You can have a perfectly good phallus created out of a big flap of skin from your arm. Trans women are women. There is nothing wrong with adult biological males competing in sports against biological women, even though they have huge physical advantages. Self-ID poses no risks to women, and anyone who doesn’t want a person with a penis in their intimate spaces (loos, changing rooms etc), or who don’t want their mammogram or smear done by a trans woman is a TERF who should die in a grease fire.

Why the agism and misogynist attitude Miajk ?

Violence against transgender people (which is similar to violence against men except where the individuals are engaged in sex work in South America,bin which case it's similar to violence against other sex workers in South America) has nothing to do with biological sex and people with disorders of sexual development.

Why the attempted conflation of medical disorders with gender identity?

Mordred

Yes, biology teachers all over the land are despairing.

Regarding another recent poster.

DON'T FORGET YO BE KIND YOU MIDDLE AGED MIDDLE CLASS WIMMIN. Honestly, mothers know fuck all.

"Literally why do all these middle aged women care so much about other people and how they identify? Take your life crisis somewhere else and take a day off would you."

@Maijk - I'm a man, thanks anyway. Trans women are trans women, which is fine. They are not, and will never be female, so they do not belong in female spaces.

Sex is not a spectrum. Gender IS, because it's all made up - dress how you like, it's been going on for years.

But no-one can change SEX, which is not assigned at birth, it's observed, apart from a tiny percentage of people with DSDs. The latter have bugger all to do with transgender.

Majik where are your receipts on violence against transwomen, because the last time I checked the number of transwomen murdered in the UK in the last decade was

It may have been linked to already on this thread, but it's always worth another read:

medium.com/@JonahMix/an-open-letter-to-the-guy-on-twitter-who-wonders-if-biological-sex-is-real-58d2cb4403f5

I was going to quote my favourite bits but there are too many, so I'll just pick one:

"Isn’t it odd that sex was never so complicated before? There was nothing ethereal about biology when it came to allocating the right to vote, or own property, or walk down the street at night without fear. We knew perfectly well what made someone female when that female-ness guaranteed a life of subservience and pain. Only when women began to say no did their bodies become a concept."

Definitely worth a read!

There is no confusion about two sexes or intersex conditions. I am not a biologist but even I know the difference between male and female. I know that I am female, the fact that I gave birth to 2 children and I am now pregnant with a third was a pretty big indicator

Can someone change the title of this thread, please? It isn't "a different viewpoint" it's a lame attempt to drag intersex people into the trans rights debate. Not that there is a debate, given the lies, denial of scientific fact, and threats and intimidation used to shut down anyone who isn't eagerly drinking the kool aid.

"Isn’t it odd that sex was never so complicated before? There was nothing ethereal about biology when it came to allocating the right to vote, or own property, or walk down the street at night without fear. We knew perfectly well what made someone female when that female-ness guaranteed a life of subservience and pain. Only when women began to say no did their bodies become a concept."

@TheRattleBag - thunderous applause. Spot on.

There are males and females.
Biological sex hasn’t all of a sudden became sooooo confusing.
The existence of people with disorders of sexual development does not change this. There is no third sex.

It's not how people identity that's the issue. A tad disingenuous to suggest that

It's how they expect you to behave as a result that's the problem

I don't mind if someone identifies as a doctor, but I only want to be treated by someone who can show they have the relevent qualifications

I don't mind a girl wanting to be called David, I do mind if she is encouraged to damage her body in order to try and convince others that she is Male

I don't mind if someone wants to be called Sheila, I do mind if they take the place of a female in the Olympics female weight lifting event

I'm sure people would always try to prove "you can only be hetero, homosexual people are just wrong" for a long time before it became OK

It's not "us" who are saying homosexual people are wrong. Ironically, it's the trans rights activists who say homosexuality is "genital fetishism". The whole ideology smacks of "transing the gay away".