Biological sex - a different view point

[ahenderson270]

geekxgirls.com/article.php?ID=12697

We don't often get the alternative side to the long-standing debate on here regarding biological sex to that presented in such a way that seems to without doubt, define male and female.

AIBU to ask if it's ok for us to try and consider beyond that? That perhaps if we try perhaps some middle ground can be discovered so the nasty name calling (TERF TRA etc ) can be put to bed and we can work towards unified solutions to issues affecting the 'person'?

There is no middle ground though. There is no alternative way of looking at this.

Biological sex is real and immutable. It doesn't change. There are two sexes: male and female. People with intersex conditions are still male or female.

All else is made up gendered nonsense.

'Difference of opinion, like SOME religious people believe same s3x relationships are unnatural (we know they’re not, but biology....).'

No same sex relationships are not comparable. For it to be comparable would be gay couples asking everyone else in the world to agree that they aren't actually gay so they don't feel excluded.

The reason these threads are full of women all agreeing which each other that posts like the OP are bollocks is because more and more women are seeing what's being asked of them and they're not happy to go along with it.

No same sex relationships are not comparable. For it to be comparable would be gay couples asking everyone else in the world to agree that they aren't actually gay so they don't feel excluded.

It’s more like a gay person insisting that a straight person is gay and calling them a bigot for refusing to sleep with them. And we know it’s not homosexuals and lesbians that are doing that.

Interesting that the linked thread in the OP doesn't mention the prevalence of the conditions discussed or their phenotypical expression. The SRY Gene recombination on the X chromosome leads to De La Chapelle syndrome which has a prevalence of 1:20,000, so very rare. It can result in phenotypical male features but equally also in internal an external abnormalities of the genitals. As far as I am aware those with De La Chapelles are sterile.

I'm still really confused as to why trams activists seek to try and argue against biological reality by somehow invoking rare genetic intersex conditions to support an unnecessary argument. Surely they would be better sticking to the psychological and social arguments? I heard a discussion on the radio a few months ago where this was being discussed and it is clear that most people involved in these arguments didn't study much biology.

if your chromosomes indicated otherwise you would dismiss that because your birthing of children determines sex?

If pityparty's chromosomes "indicated otherwise" she would not have been able to birth her children.

Gender may be a social construct - sex isn't. It's biologically determined. Yes, there are some intersex individuals, but they are few and far between and even then they are intersex -not "intergender". Most decide which sex they prefer to identify as - which may or may not be the sex they were thought to be at birth.

Your arguments are specious.

I’m just checking my bingo list, before the accusations start.

Just told DP I could be male as I have never had my chromosome tested.

Hes just asked if I need him to call someone as I have clearly lost the plot.

Love these "joke" threads

Last lot were twins!! My uterus is pretty damn amazing

Twins, you say?

Surely only a male uterus would be strong and muscular enough to cope with a multiple pregnancy . . .

Give your head a wobble, OP. If you are fertile there is no doubt about your chromosomes. Nice dismissal of the infertile.

"coordinated blitz bombing to stifle and suffocate alterative views "

Is there a bat signal that goes up? I'm not on the list! I'm feeling left out now. Who do I need to see to get put on the list?

It’s a weird thing to get angry about but to each their own.

1forsorrow Did you strain yourself reaching that far?

Surely only amaleuterus would be strong and muscular enough to cope with a multiple pregnancy . . .

Oh god they were a right size too! Maybe I am male after all.

I'm disappointed there aren't any clownfish on this thread.

A non-dysmophic woman who has gone through puberty normally and who has had periods and given both does not have male chromosomes.

Bullshit. you're talking to 2 million women who have pushed babies out of their vaginas. Not one of us has xy chromosomes because not one person with xy chromosomes has ever pushed a baby out of their vagina. That's the level of certainty we have here and why your trojan horse arguments will always appear weak and transparent. We're aware of the agenda driving transgenderism and why everyone from transsexuals to intersex people to black women has been appropriated by you and used as a human shield to deflect any form of criticism of the highly sexist, anti-safeguarding approach. We're aware of regulatory capture and why you're doing it and we're busy fighting back with everything we have.

coordinated blitz bombing to stifle and suffocate alterative views

YY - I’m imaging an morse code signal going out then “the dam busters” begins playing as mumsnetters all swoop in and then out again one by one to put a stop to this nonsense.

Nice dismissal of the infertile.

I’m infertile and it doesn’t offend me in the slightest. It’s a statement of fact. If you birth babies, you are a female. I’m of sex that can bare children. The fact that I’m infertile doesn’t change that, because I’m also of the sex that menstruates and by fuck did I menstruate!

Nice dismissal of the infertile.

Don't talk soft!

Oh god they were a right size too! Maybe I am male after all.

Get those chromosomes tested now!

You may need to buy a pipe and start mansplaining to people. You could have years of being right all the time to catch up on.

Yes there are a very small percentage of people who are intersex. If anyone who is intersex wants to “change sex” from the one given at birth. Then all power to them💪🏻 A few exceptions such as elite sport aside.

The vast majority of trans people are not intersex and many intersex people really object the TRA lobby attaching themselves to the intersex condition.

I believe all people should be able to present themselves as they wish (although I feel the sexualised extremes some present, are insulting) men should be able to wear dresses, make-up et al and women should be able to be assertive and passionate without being call strident or hysterical. However, Transmen are not women and don’t need to be. This does not impinge in their human rights, nor their trans-status rights. They just don’t get female rights! Transmen should have the full quota of female sex-based rights. So it is not anti-trans to say this, it is just saying males shouldn’t get the rights given to females to counter the females’ disadvantages within society. Trans people have been given their own extra rights to counter the disadvantages they have, so unless they are female, hands off the female ones!

There's no debate whatsoever that intersex people exist!

How it is relevant to trans and non-binary folk, though? Wouldn't it actually prove to be a massive barrier if you had to have tests to check whether you were in intersex in order to be able to transition, for example? I don't really think that most trans and non-binary people feel that being physically intersex is a defining characteristic. (Happy to be proven wrong, this is just from my relatively limited personal experience!)

Anything at all to the unhelpful and unkind one that both sides seem to have decided to entrench themselves on.

I'm pretty sure that threatening to kill women and saying we should die in a grease fire if we don't submit is unkind, but then on the other side of the debate we have statements of biological fact. Men are not women. How is that unkind?

Any other facts that are unkind? Or just the ones that involve women saying no to men?

You could have years of being right all the time to catch up on.

I am right all the time now. That's it no testing needed I am defo male...or a mushroom 🤔