AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

God it makes me soooooo angry. How many times have I had people in who start the job, then one day they have to go and get something,and are gone for hours. Then as days drag on, they keep disappearing for things they forgot! They think we don't know they're juggling many jobs. Either that or they've got terrible memories. You who have not had these experiences are either so lucky or bloody liars. Who the hell pays for materials upfront unless you're having a house built!

You see this on mumsnet all the time. Op says. Tradesperson fucked up a job- left it for weeks etc etc Replies come- well they can’t do it all. They’re stressed - what do you expect. They’re not there to help you etc etc

Anyone remember the "Waldorf Salad" episode of Fawlty Towers when a guest tries to complain to Basil, and he starts off a long list of woes ...

I thought you were supposed to be complaining to him said the guests wife, as the guest apologises to Fawlty.

That really happens ...

@berryfull....I feel your pain, and I am so sorry that this wonderful addition to your garden has been turned into a nightmare. I've been in your shoes many times.. I actually had to finish installing a window once because the tradesman kept putting me off to complete the job. There had been so many troublesome issues by this point that I paid him his wage just to get rid of him 🤣 and I think I did a pretty good finishing job myself.
I have wanted to have projects done around my home, but just decided to make due so as not to have to deal with the extremely stressful process of it all, i.e. unreliable tradesmen, out of stock materials, etc..
I also am sorry you feel let down by your DH with his uncaring, unthoughtful words to you when you were obviously just needing him to validate your feelings about the whole debacle...you tried to do your due diligence, but in these days of people not taking pride in their work,... them not caring about having a good reputation, and to standing by their word, it is almost impossible to cover all the bases. You were only expecting the tradesman to have as much integrity as you do with the jobs you do.

I have friends who do get recommendations from estate agents as they tend to have a reliable list of tradesmen...good luck, and I hope you are able to get your home improvement done with no further headaches!

I do think a lot of tradespeople treat you like you owe them a job and should be grateful.
I remember BEGGING one once to fix our toilet (which he broke) the day before Xmas eve. So that we didn’t have to move into a hotel over Xmas.
He said, sorry I’m not working in the holidays. I actually had to give him all the money up front. And he never finished the job properly. And I only wanted the toilet fixed! I could live without a shower or water.
Fucking cunt

Wait a minute ... @berryfull
Is it customary for tradesmen to have to pay the supplier when something is ordered in your area? Where I live, they don't pay until the supplies are in stock and the order is ready to be picked up unless it is a high-end specialty order that needs to be custom made....which definitely doesn't sound like the case here...I think he used your deposit to pay his own overdue bills unfortunately or to buy materials for another job....

@Aglet so you're trying to tell me your insurance legal cover provides the fees for you to sue trades people that delay jobs? I call total bullshit on that! 🙄

No. I'm talking about someone doing a crap job. But if you have a written agreement for someone to do a job at a specific time and they renege, then it is perfectly reasonable to take action.

I think you are being completely reasonable OP.

You asked for a quote, gave him timescales and had all this backed up by him agreeing, in writing that this was possible. You stressed at the time how important timescales were for you and he agreed to these.

He's now gone back on his initial agreement, giving you barely any notice and is now refusing to return your deposit.

Small claims court it is then. He'll end up being more out of pocket, as he'll have to pay court fees

Look at it as you would dealing with any company. I booked a holiday, if the holiday company were to change the date of my holiday would I expect to lose my deposit if I couldn't make the new date? Of course not. Nor would I get my deposit back if I wanted to change the date of my holiday giving the holiday company no notice.

This dickhead still hasn’t refunded me two weeks on. Now claiming that he hasn’t been refunded by suppliers and is in hospital having emergency surgery .

Oh no, so is his story that he has the materials but is too unwell to do the job? If so, I'd tell him he needs to make arrangements to have them delievered to your house asap. Then find someone else to do the job.

Tell him you're instructing a solicitor for small claims court. Let's see how quickly the suppliers refund him then.

I don't think you are unreasonable at all.
You clearly stated that you needed the supercomputing on x date.
I'm trying not to sound sexist here but, How come this seems to be more common amongst men ?
I've had women decline business due to timescales, being honest and fair.
I would peruse it and get your money back. Then leave an accurate review of his unreliable the tradesman is on FB.

Small claims then.

@Dozer
Your H is U to use sexist words like hysterical.

When did 'hysterical become a sexist word?

Sorry, but unsurprised.

Just for lolz, you could look into "loss of bargain". Unlikely to apply here, but raising public consciousness of legal principles can never do any harm, surely ?

The original builder might find himself under the patio when it does get built

Letter before action and followed up with small claims court if he doesn't get his ass in gear then. Twats like this give the rest of us trades a bad reputation.

claiming that he hasn’t been refunded by suppliers and is in hospital having emergency surgery

Ah yes, the "in hospital" gambit, which you worry about challenging just in case he really is - priceless isn't it?

If you know anyone else who lives near him I'd be sorely tempted to do a bit of detective work on that, but probably it would make more sense to just start the small claims process. It'll almost certainly come to that in the end, so maybe it's better to do it before he dissolves the company and mysteriously appears under a different name

Yeah, I’m going to start the legal bit.

Just trying to decide whether it’s a good idea to publically shame him on local Facebook group ( which is where I found him) . With this thread being pretty split on whether I was being unreasonable I’m unsure whether to.

What do you guys think ?

@berryfull personally I wouldn't do anything to publicly name him until this is resolved one way or another; small claims court is nothing lik a "trial", but all the same you don't want him claiming that you tried to ruin his business as some kind of defence

Time enough to decide what you want to do when you hopefully get your money back

Something very similar happened to me a few years ago. The rogue trader was VERY similar to yours too.

He agreed the job on say Monday, was supposed to start the next day and complete the job by Wednesday as I had other plans that couldn't be moved. I gave him a large deposit so that there would be no issues (stupid, I know). Simple items he had said he would buy the same day and return the next day. He told me on Wednesday that the 'delivery' still wouldn't have arrived by Thursday so I said that was no good and for him to refund my deposit. He promised to cancel the order and refund me after several conversations.

I knew he couldn't be trusted so I got another tradesman who would do the work within 2 days, which he came and did.

A week later, some wood was delivered to my door by the rogue trader and then he refused to remove them or refund me.

How did it end? It took about 1 year (more like 2), tons of emails, phone calls and text messages and lies. It went to Citizens advice, solicitors, noises about breach of contract, all the way to small claims court and got the document for the bailiff to go and take control of the cash or items. I passed it to a company to do this, paid admin fees etc. I had to keep going - it was a matter of principle at this point.

The rogue trader had filed bankruptcy, all letters were being returned.

I got nothing in the end apart from a tough lesson. Never give a deposit for any kind of work!