AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

"1- it would not happen, I would endure sufficient time and contingency time. "

So what was the timescale between booking your tradesman and the job date? Did you allow sufficient time and contingency time?

10 days. Which is not my job to know is sufficient time , it’s the tradesman’s.

@berryfull important lesson learnt but 100% your husband should back you up with this rogue tradesperson. I got into a minor verbal altercation with a builder a couple of years back after he tried to demand I pay an invoice higher than the amount he'd originally quoted (his secretary had doubled the VAT). I told him I'd pay the invoice as soon as he sent me one for the correct amount and actually fitted a window correctly, rather than just balancing it in the gap in the brickwork! That apparently caused him great offence as being able to easily push a window out in the event of a fire was some major benefit in his mind!. Unfortunately, this builder was the best of the bunch I'd spoken to for the job.

Those materials will still be at the builders merchants if he has an account they will credit him.

You're husband is a prat but I think you've been very abrasive.

Ffs Your

YABU. Shouldn't pay a penny until the job is done......the only time I've relented (( after being ripped off more than once myself )) was paying for some materials half way through the job. And that was only because I knew the builder really well.

Actually this would piss me off.

He just bought himself some time by agreeing to a job he probably knew he couldn’t do on the specified time.

My dh went to a Thai take away last weekend. He ordered our food (around £47) and he said he would bob back after he had been to the local shop. He went back 20 mins later expecting the food and they said come back in an hour as it wasn’t officially open yet

He came home empty handed and we had to wait the hour. I was not happy.

This is why I always get the materials myself

YANBU at all, I can’t believe the vote is so split on this.

You stressed the fact it needed to be that particular date and that’s mostly why you chose him to do the job. He should have made sure he could get the materials on time before agreeing to it.

(My husband) thinks people should have enough cash flow in the business to pay for materials in advance and if they don't, then they could be in trouble financially and go bust halfway through the job*

This ^^ Decent ones will have supplier accounts so won't even need to pay upfront themselves (except perhaps for some bespoke items) ... the rest often expect deposits just to keep the client on the hook, ripe for manipulation because of the money they've already paid

I wonder if OP actually knows whether this guy has ordered the materials, or if the money's perhaps been used elsewhere ... ?

Our builders in this area like you to order the materials for them. Keeps them under the VAT limit that way.

Apologies - bold fail on the header there

Also laying a patio isn't as weather dependant as say, painting outdoors, so he can't even use that as a valid excuse!

He's hardly a rogue trader just because the materials were a bit late ffs!

It's inconvenient and yes, if the job was arranged for a particular day then all efforts should have been made to adhere to that plan. What we don't know is what happened, we don't know if there was an issue out of the tradesman's control, we don't know if he did everything to try and rectify it.

Technically you're not in the wrong OP but I think you're being very difficult. A bit of flexibility wouldn't hurt, I think it might have helped then situation slightly.

Is 'hysterical' a sexist term? Perhaps her behaviour was hysterical?

Why can't a patio be installed on a different day? It's hardly urgent.

Actually, now i'm wondering if he HAS spent the money elsewhere. He should surely be able to refund you?

You state deposit paid day 10, job to be done day 14.

To me that is asking for issues, not enough time to make sure order is fulfilled.

When we had our drive done, we used a highly recommended local tradesmen, who asked for us to pay for the materials directly to the store he was purchasing them from with a reference number as he had been stung for thousands of pounds when people pulled out of jobs at the last minute.

Is 'hysterical' a sexist term?

Yes.

OP is not being difficult because she expects him to start and finish the agreed project on time. He should have offered her a full refund straight away.

How he gets the refund money isn't OP's problem.

My husband thinks it's unreasonable to pay anything at all upfront on jobs like this, which makes it difficult when you're trying to hire a tradesman! He thinks people should have enough cash flow in the business to pay for materials in advance and if they don't, then they could be in trouble financially and go bust halfway through the job!

Depends on the type of trade and how long they have been trading. A carpenter doing fences, decking etc won’t be earning enough to have 1000s in cash flow for expensive wood or composite decking. Plus a trader only a year or so in won’t be able to get accounts with as much from the builders merchants or at all.

This is why I always get the materials myself

Same here, unless I already know and trust the trader, though too often it brings a blizzard of "I know them well / can get it much cheaper". You'd think if they know the supplier so well they'd have an account, but apparently not ...

@Toffeecakes and he's pulling the other with bells on! If a small business dosn't have a few hundred pounds to pay for materials and labour to fullfill a small job like laying a patio at this time of year, there's something fishy going on. It's not being difficult to ask for the terms of a contract to be adhered to. If you pitched up to a hotel you'd booked in advance prior to an early morning flight tomorrow would you be satisfied with the terms if they asked you to come back in 5 days time as they can't accomodate you right now?

Well if the tradesman didn't have the money to order the materials, he's not going to have it to give you back before he gets refunded. Not much he can do before the materials turn up.

Yeah it being half and half and the variety of opinions makes me feel not quite so pissed off at my husband.

But I still think he should back me up and give me support rather than some tradesman he’s never met.

Well, that's assuming the supplier does credit accounts and that the materials are under the limit if they do. Not all do and those that do don't do credit for thousands for all traders. I know as I've worked for those sort of places. A trader running his own business might not have loads of money sitting around, especially if they have staff they have to pay