AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

Just out of interest, what materials did he need? It’s easy enough then to find out whether they take weeks to deliver, or whether in more likelihood he’s fibbing to you. Ring someone like Jewson and see what they say about how long to get materials to you. There is no really easy way to find better tradesman but I’d say best way to choose is to meet them and go with who you like. On the odd occasion we have used FB recommends pages it’s been a nightmare 🤷‍♀️ don’t know why? Most really decent trades don’t need to find work there I guess? If we’re in a new area I ask local estate agents, look online for professional websites, ask people we know in the area. Ask merchants. There are lots of chancers though and lots of unreliable and untrustworthy tradesmen out there, but also lots of dynamic very diligent people trying to make a good name for themselves. I have to say - we always go for sole traders as they work for themselves rather than oversee tradesmen, have fewer overheads (so prices are better), and we’ve found are more reliable and more reasonable in their approach. Just my experience though.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. You chose that tradesman mainly because of his availability & he let you down.

I feel that you’re being unreasonable with your husband. He doesn’t have to agree with you or back you up. You made the decision, you’ll have to sort it out - he’s completely fine to have his own opinion - he’s not unreasonable because he doesn’t share your opinion.

Just read your other post - he’s claiming he couldn’t get hold of fencing materials? So essentially ... timber? 🤨 never heard of standard timber being difficult to get hold of before ....

Yeah it was a fence (I said patio in the OP so’s not to be outing. I’ve had folk contact me before to say they have seen my thread)

Yabu, you broke the golden rule, never ever pay for goods up front. Any reputable trades person will have a trade account for goods that they can order through and pay for them.

The OP is not being unreasonable for having paid upfront and got into trouble - that’s victim blaming. She was not unreasonable to agree a contact with him in writing, and she was not unreasonable to get him to invoice her - in writing - and it’s not her being unreasonable that he let her down. He is being unreasonable. He promised something, in writing, and then failed to deliver. He broke a contact - therefore the OP is not BU. This is simple logic.

Just read your other post - he’s claiming he couldn’t get hold of fencing materials? So essentially ... timber? 🤨 never heard of standard timber being difficult to get hold of before ....*

Got a friend in the trade who says the prices and availability of timber and bricks is a real challenge at the moment.

I think the OP might need to pursue this in small claims. Verbal contracts are not as good as written ones but they are enforceable. It depends what a reasonable person would make of it.

In my experience , most tradesmen are not always good communicators ..they may be skilled and that’s why we need them - but they dont always manage the business side well
You have to be a bit flexible and patient sometimes if you want them to do the job

I honestly get the principle of this, but it all falls apart a bit when you consider what so many are charging. That's not necessarily a problem in itself - "the labourer's worthy of his hire" and all that - but if I'm paying someone a professional rate I don't really expect to have to coax them through what's required

After being stung a few times I've been lucky enough to source a selection of good guys, and I find absolutely clarity and good manners usually work pretty well. Those who still can't cope - or worse, think they're doing me a favour in turning up at all - are welcome to work elsewhere and face the business failure which often results from such an attitude

Hopo - if that is the case (and we’ve been ordering timber every day for the past 6 months without issue) then the contractor should have known. It should be no surprise to anyone in the trade when materials are scarce.

You were right

The tradesman is wrong and flaky. Very poor comms. He knew the dates and should have let you know if there was a problem.

Your he is rude and unhelpful.

I'm self employed. I do a job when it it's booked in. I do not let clients down.

things happen jobs run over time jusf hope you can find someone else that can do it soon

If he was delayed due to reasons out of his control (material supply, weather, illness etc) he has every right to move the work to a new date. Materials ordered will no doubt be bespoke to your work and yes it is normal to have to pay a deposit or payment which covers any out of pocket expense prior to work commencement. It sounds to me as if the tradesman assumes normal supply of goods from his regular supplier and was let down. I think you handled it poorly.

Yanbu.

Your husband is a prick. Id be rethinking that decision.

My husband is a tradesman & asks for materials to be paid upfront for one simple reason - he’s been stung once too many by people who don’t pay. If the materials are paid for & this happens he’s only out the labour cost, which can be significant but not as painful as passing someone’s garden where you know you’ve paid for the patio.....

So this guy has waited 10 days to ask for a deposit and attempt to order the timber required? He sounds very disorganised, timber is not hard to come across. A deposit is acceptable as a pp said often customers will cancel and you’re left with materials and out of pockets. The tradesman is in the wrong for leaving it so late to order then cancel on OP. If he doesn’t have the timber or an agreeable date then refund should be made.

I always order the materials myself and somethings can be really hard to get hold of at times! I once waited a fortnight for a steel beam, I had a house full of acro props and the builder had to go a do a small job whilst we waited.
Ive had to wait if a previous job has over run, when you do big building jobs its impossible to get everything to fit together perfectly.

Generally you have to work together and both be flexible

Things such as windows do have to be paid for when ordering.

If you've paid and the materials are delivered to your house you may as well keep them.

Nah tradesman is an idiot.

You told him the date you wanted it done upfront. He agreed to that.
He then decided to still order material knowing it wouldn't come in time, and just expects you to be OK with it.

What he should have done is not ordered the parts, contacted you first and said sorry I can't get the materials on time, only by this time, is that OK? If not refund deposit.

Would any of you go to a shop, ask to buy bread, pay for it and then be told you have to wait a week? No. You wanted it now, not next week.

It's quite simple. You don't sell something if you can't manage it. If he's now lost out on money, it's his own fault for buying it.

It amazes me the amount of people who just accept such shoddy incompetent, rude and disrespectful tradesmen.

@berryfull but you're still not going to get the work done on time will you? You've now got to find someone else and start all over again, for what would've been a small delay? You also keep on about "you got an invoice", but you didn't get any information on his T&Cs and ability to cancel, that's what you needed!

better a delay than allowing a incompetent liar to make a mess if the job to be honest

But the date was sooo important... how can you even contemplate a delay

@berryfull but why if he's incompetent did you ever instruct him, did you not check out his reviews, get recommendations, or ask to see his work.

You really have cut off your nose to spite your face haven't you? You clearly thought he was the best person for the job, he delays a little, you throw all the toys out of your pram and now you're going. To have to find someone else you aren't keen on. After you've done all the ground work to make sure his workmanship is up to scratch.

It happens with good trades people, they go into a house do a good job and then it's, oh could you do this or that while your here and the job gets extended.

You surely didn't employ him on just the fact he could do the very important dates you wanted?

I'd be saying I've chosen him, he was the person I liked most, his reviews were best, he was thorough with his survey etc and therefore he is worth a short delay.

Berryfull - rare statement for me on MN - I agree 100% with everything you've said.

YAabsolutelyNBU

You have a contract, it's clear with all info, you have invoicw and email thread. He's a complete idiot - and sounds as incompetent as they come

See it as a lucky escape. And you will get all your money back, plus costs if you incur any (eg not being able to change day off work as he didn't give you enough reasonable notice).

Fucksake, I’ve already made it clear why I chose him over a couple of posts. He was recommended, had good reviews, a mutual friend oked him, was the middle quote and his suggested day was the most convenient.

I’ve also already stated that it’s no one’s business why I wanted it done on the particular date. Although I do have a reason I wanted it done this month.

I mainly didn’t want for a tradesman to dictate the date they would come and have to wait around and rearrange work/plans around them. I wanted someone to come and do the job on the day they said they could and made that totally clear from the outset.

This seems fairly clear that it’s pretty split between folk who think AIBU and folk who don’t. Slightly more agree with me. Not enough to win a referendum in my opinion but then I don’t run the country. Evidentally! I can’t even get some twAt to put a fence in my garden in fucking January!

Night all

@berryfull so he was recommended etc etc, but you're not going to use him? Because he delayed a little?

Ok your right, go with someone without a recommendation who can easily fit you in because no one uses them, because they're shite!

I think you're the twat in fucking January!