AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

Wot @ProfessorSlocombe and @mrsbyers said.

A householder wanting a relatively small job done has very little leverage when it comes to having jobs done.

The easiest way with people you don't know it's best to agree a bill of materials which you can then buy and have available (or know that they won't be). It does mean that you can't benefit for their trade discount.

When you do find people who are responsive, cherish them. Be kind, look after them and hope they return the favours.

You seem to have overreacted to this quite a lot. I'd not back my DH if I thought he was wrong.

Any advice on how to find a reliable tradesman?

IME there's only one reliable way - word of mouth from someone you know and trust personally. This could even include another trader known to be reputable, since they won't compromise their own good name by suggeting someone dodgy

In the meantime avoid:
All " find a trader" sites - decent ones don't need to pay for referrals
Those with reviews which all read similarly - they're probably bought en masse
Anyone who says the "Guild of Master Craftsmen" counts - that's also bought and means zip
Those who've traded under numerous names
Oh, and anyone who expects a deposit upfront!! (unless for bespoke items)

Uhhh- similar situation to me, except the tradesman came, built the patio then left all the soil and stones. In his quote it said he would take it away and tidy up etc. I was so p**d off with him, I've locked all his tools in my conservatory and he's not having them back until he's finished!

Over reacted? Really?

So I’m supposed to just wait for a tradesman to do a job at their convenience?

bit unrealistic to pin it all down to ONE day

what if the weather was too bad for the job.....snow for example? what then?

yes.....tradesmen round here get booked up weeks and months in advance

IHRTFT but, any respectable tradesman will be on 30 day EOM terms with builder's merchants (TP etc) so doesn't need a materials deposit. A polite letter threatening small claims court should do the trick. If in doubt CAB are great for this sort of thing

well you can't go away with your DH then, can you? After the work is done - as long as you really do have the timing in writing, tell him to knock 5% off...

I think you are being unreasonable. You paid him to buy the materials which he did. He then had to cancel for whatever reason and cannot return the goods. You should have made an alternative date. All parties have to act reasonably. I find for your DH.

you've definitely done this wrong im afraid. paying upfront is always a bad idea. payment should be in installments when part of the work is done. I got caught exactly the same.

If the tradesman wanted the goods, he should have given you a list and arranged for them to be delivered to your house.

People here are being unduly harsh on you. You agreed when the work would start and he has failed to follow through. He knew the date of delivery of the work was important to you - it's a condition of the contract. He repudiated your agreement and you're now terminating and want your deposit back. Fair play. Tell him if he doesn't give you your money back it's off to the small claims court.

There may be a restocking fee of up to 50% for the materials if you cancel the job. My dh used to own a building company and I did invoicing for him some of the time... you as the client would be repaying the fee.
What if the weather was horrendous and was snowing... who would you blame then?

Proper tradesmen have an account with suppliers. My DH does...he'd never ask for money for materials!

If you want anything done by tradesmen you have to be flexible, you are not their only customer. If you had said the job must be done on an exact date most builders would not even bother quoting

To be honest, I have no regrets. I’d rather it take longer than have an unreliable liar on my property.

Oh the high fucking drama!

Crack on OP, you should have the new patio c. 2023!

You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, but out of interest if you neeeeeedeeeeedt the patio so urgently why didn't you start the process earlier!

I settle these kind of construction disputes for a job.

Actually neither you nor your husband are wrong.

Paying in advance for materials - not all tradesmen ask for this but for small residential jobs it’s not unreasonable. Charging for materials purchased in advance means that the tradesman is not out of pocket should you as a client decide to cancel or postpone at the last minute. The materials now belong to you and if he withholds a refund he should at least deliver the materials to you. Never pay for labour in advance. Never pay a deposit in advance unless this “deposit” is exclusively payment for materials (which it seems to be in this case).

Your contract - it sounds like you have an agreement rather than a water tight contract. You’ve agreed a start date and the work but do you have in writing what is to be done by either parties if a delay to the start date occurs? Yes it’s reasonable to expect a refund (or delivery of the materials) if he can’t start the work when he says he can, but unless it’s written in the contract, the exact time to issue such refund is negotiable. While you’d like a refund immediately, it’s not in his interests to keep you as a happy customer because I doubt you’ll be using him for future work.

Hope that helps.

Thanks ALHanes.

Thanks everyone, really interesting and helpful as always x

We always take deposits on any job over £500. Its not that we dont have credit we have plenty its that a significant proportion of customers cannot be trusted and i see no reason why we should take on debt on their behalf. Also any good trader will have supplier issues buttoned up in their T&Cs. Hes said you'll get your money back when he does, thats not unreasonable assuming it is returned in a reasonable space of time. Going off on one threatening legal action and bad reviews like several posters have mentioned isn't going to get it back any faster and at this point the trader has given you no reason to think you wont get it back.

As soon as I get my money back he’s definately getting a bad review.

Why is it reasonable to say you can do something on a certain day, take someone’s money promising that you can, and then pull out and refuse to give them their money back until it suits you? That’s theft to me.

He has given me reason to suspect he won’t give it back. By being unreliable and by lying .

Beware leaving a bad review unless you live in a large impartial city where the locals are not known to each other, even then I would not do it. You may find yourself blacklisted or quotes artificially inflated between the tradesmen.

In my experience, paying a deposit up front is standard practice. Postponement due to bad weather is due to unforeseen circumstances and cant be helped. No decent contractors should even consider laying a patio in wet weather. The problem in your case sounds to be they couldn't get the goods delivered in time to start the job. That's bad planning, and something they should have been able to avoid. However, if it's due to continued bad weather, then I'm afraid that's an unavoidable 'Act of God' and you need to have contingency planning in place.

Suck it up and let it go berry.

The verdict is 50/50.

You are abrasive and have handled this badly. Your husband has not been supportive. The tradesman could have been more professional.

Blacklisted?

Is there a secret cabal of patio layers?