AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

I could of understood if it had have been the weather. But it wasn’t.

Jesus, blacklisting? Give over. Anyone who is pals with this lying fool is not someone I want doing work for me anyway.

If you want anything done by tradesmen you have to be flexible, you are not their only customer.

Are you Basil Fawlty ? You could run the hotel better with no guests ?

In my universe he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Ha... I think you will find the piper will have many other customers he can go and work for
If you are an awkward customer before the job starts you will more than likely be a pita for the whole job... no one wants to work for someone like that

Fairenuff, surely in business you have cash flow to cope with this sort of thing?

Err, not always. Some nope a lot of small traders arent that good at managaing themselves some have their wife/partner to look after that side of the busines my BIL has my sister managing him!

Their not that good at communicating either they may well be good at their job but getting them to turn up, another matter entirely!

That goes for bigger outfits saw this happen across the way bit like a love affair it was for the single woman ther her new dream kitchen and extension it all ended like a lot of relationships do, at the solicitors:(

Can you say how much you've advanced him up front at all?.

@Alexalee has it spot on! Trades are busy they will overprice to not get a job if you seem awkward!

The views and attitudes in some of these responses illustrate buyers’ problems when buying from companies in this industry.

totally.

Have you never hired any construction or gardening staff before? I can understand your frustration but your expectations were idealistic rather than realistic. I'm very surprised the contract's Ts&Cs didn't have a get-out clause citing weather, force majeure, availability of materials, etc. That would be standard. Perhaps that's why your DH was more pragmatic.
Currently, you're out of pocket and no further forward. It would have been worth exploring if your DH could have been available for an alternative date since he seemed to think that was an option.

OP, technically you were in the right, but in your shoes I would have been more flexible on timing.

I'd never give bad reviews on checkatrade or similar. They don't do you any good, and the tradesman has your address if they are not happy with your business damaging review

I’m in the construction industry and deal with trades all the time. He’s not telling the truth about needing a deposit. I don’t know a single trade in any area that doesn’t have a credit account. I imagine he is finishing a job and can’t fit you in - his fault not yours. Your entitled to your money back as you made it very clear when you needed the work done. And in terms of not being able to get hold of materials - also nonsense. Most trades know exactly what is and isn’t difficult to get hold of at any given time - I project manage and it’s my job to know what is and isn’t scarce too. If you don’t, projects don’t run on time. So he’s either lying, or he’s shit at what he does. Get your money back and find someone else.

*you’re entitled

I'd never give bad reviews on checkatrade or similar. They don't do you any good, and the tradesman has your address if they are not happy with your business damaging review

I don't think it's possible to give bad reviews on CheckaTrade or similar. They have a resolution process that unsatisfied customers must engage in first which involves the tradesperson being allowed to "put it right". I've never known it go further than that.

Remember, it's the tradesperson who pays CheckaTrade - not you. So you don't need a degree in rocketry to work out whose side they'll take 99% of the time.

You gave him a date and a deposit in enough time to get the materials in imo. So YANBU that he cannot live up to his commitment. He should be more organised to ensure he had what he needed in time

You wouldn't pay without an invoice. He won't refund until he IS refunded. Both eminently reasonable.

In my experience , most tradesmen are not always good communicators ..they may be skilled and that’s why we need them - but they dont always manage the business side well.hence he may have said yes to the job without looking into the availability of materials etc.or because he thought he would string you along and do it when he could rather than short notice you wanted.. You have to be a bit flexible and patient sometimes if you want them to do the job .. now you are out of pocket and don’t have anyone to do the job ..so lesson learnt ..rationale and timescales and builders dont always go together.. and your husband probably looked at it in a male simplistic whatever, cest la vie , not the end of the world way ..as men often do( annoyingly )

But if they say they definitely can do something by a very specific date then it’s very reasonable that you expect them to stick to it. They are after all professionals and you expect them to be able to organise a job they are supposedly good at. Find someone else who is honest and won’t mess you around.

Also if he’s ordered materials which are going to be delayed he simply has to ring to cancel as they obviously haven’t despatched the goods. and if he’s not on a credit account they will refund him then and there. Everything he says sounds plausible but is in fact simply untrue.

Thanks furfockssake, that’s what I plan to do. Any advice on how to find them?

I mean I literally said to this guy (Copied and pasted from email)

“ I’m partly choosing you from the quotes I got due to your availability suiting ours, so please If you have any doubt about the timing then do let me know. The timing is really important, it’s a dealbreaker if you can’t do the job on the agreed date.”

"Timeframe agreed in writing by tradesman day one when tradesman quoted for job.
Timeframe again confirmed in writing day 5 when quote accepted. Timing stated in writing to be dealbreaker.
Deposit requested , invoice issued and deposit paid day 10
Job to be done day 14. Job cancelled day 13 late afternoon."

So he quoted for the job, expecting to have time to order the materials. You then gave him the requirement that he issue you an invoice before you paid the deposit, which would be five days after the job was agreed. He then went to try and get the materials, likely on day 11 (though we don't know whether this is a weekend, if day 11 is a Saturday you are being very unreasonable indeed).

He didn’t ask for the deposit until day 10. He had the money an hour after asking (but not until he’d emailed me an invoice) . Personally I would of expected him to gave organised the materials on day 5 when I accepted his quote. The fact that he left it five days meant that he only had 4 days to get the materials. Which I suspect was not long enough. But that’s not my problem, and I don’t see why I should have to Pay for his mistake.

Agree with a few others, payment upfront is generally a red flag.

Simply go back and say.

Invoice was paid with an agreed date and payment. I have honoured this. Clearly your supply has let you down but that means you have broken our agreement.

Understand that you have paid for materials and you will have the same discussions with supplier as they should have delivered before today. How do you propose to fix this, as date you are suggesting doesn’t work and without the money I am stuck without agreed work and no way of replacing your services!

The workman is being reasonable to suggest he can't refund you until he is credited by the supplier. I have usually managed not to give a deposit to a tradesman by ordering the materials myself. Have gone to the building suppliers and given the tradesman's name and got the items at trade price. Sorted.

Rtruth, I have said that already. he ignored for 4 days and when he finally replied he lied saying

“ I did not breach the contract, it was due to the weather with it being raining and heavy winds, I didn't start the job to which I said to you before hand. I also stated in my messages that I have ordered the products that I needed for the fencing being done and that they would not refund this as they are already getting prepared for delivery which is coming to your address“

When I responded pointing out that he was now contradicting what he’d already said in a previous message he went back to ignoring me again.

I’ve now sent the fool an official letter giving him 14 days to pay as I can’t be bothered anymore. He’s a lying incompetent man and I’m glad I didn’t have him in my property. I suspect I’ll have to get my money back through the courts sadly. Fucking annoying.

Decent tradesmen shouldn't ask for money upfront. They should also have accounts with suppliers so do not need money upfront.