AIBU husband and tradesmen

[berryfull]

Perspective please.

Arranged to get some garden work done (think patio)

Asked for recommendations on local Facebook group.
Out of recommendations got 4 quotes.
Decided on the middle second lowest quote that could do it on the best date
Checked the tradesman’s reviews on their Facebook page (10 all fine) and checked with a friend who vaguely knows the guy to say whether he had any bells about him. Said not.
Told the tradesman that the timing was very important, and that it was a dealbreaker if they couldn’t commit to the day.
The tradesman asked for a deposit for materials, so I said ok but asked for an invoice prior to payment. Paid him by bank transfer a few hours later once invoice received.
Tradesman contacted me the day before the job was due to commence saying that he couldn’t get materials delivered in time and so couldn’t do the job and would let me know when he would come.
I asked him when this would be.
He said in a week’s time, which wasn’t convenient to me so I said no, that doesn’t suit. Please return the deposit.
The tradesman refused, saying he’d ordered materials already.
I said well cancel them and refund me today. He refused saying i would have to wait until he got refunded.
He is now refusing to answer messages.

My husband says that I’ve been daft, got myself into a regrettable situation and “gone on the offensive” . Daft because I paid a deposit. “Gone on the offensive” because I asked for my money back rather than let the tradesman come and do the job a week late when it wasn’t convenient.

Is the tradesman being reasonable?
Is my husband being unreasonable?
Am I being unreasonable ? My husband now says I’m being “hysterical “ For being angry about this and being angry at him not backing me up . And apparently unrealistic to think I’ll get someone to come and do this work on the day they said they would.

I think you have been a bit too inflexible. He thought he could get the materials in time, but it didn't end up that way. Shit happens. You could have had what you wanted done some days later, but instead now you are going to get into a fight with him about money, and then you still have to go find someone to do the work for you. So the whole thing will be much more stress and take a lot longer.

You have cut off your nose a bit though. You still don’t have someone on the date you wanted. What have you gained?

I don't agree that he's been reasonable, he shouldn't agree to the date if he wasn't sure he could get the mats. It's not hard to pop to bnq or wherever. If you're relying on delivery make sure the lead time is well before the expected completion date for the work.

Ah so that time frame does mean he was in the wrong as he agreed the time-frame twice, but only left 4 days to ask for the money for the materials. He definitely should have said he couldn't do it before ordering if he knew it would take longer to get them. In slight fairness to him, I work with a lot of traders, and sometimes delays happen which they have zero control over so he may not have known beforehand. Still, does seem he had 5 days he could have asked for the money to get the materials in to start the job

What have you gained?

Experience ?

I wouldn't pay money up front for a job so YANBU. Reputable firms will have a grace period on credit lines with the distributors and any tradesman worth their salt will have a pay within x amount of days of the work being completed policy which is clearly stated before the job starts.

Yes, You are right sonjadog, and I think this is my husbands view, that I’m daft to expect a tradesman to do a job when they say they will and to have paid money upfront and expect it back.

But I don’t actually want someone on my property and wasting my time if they can’t keep their word. Like I said, I am self employed. I’d never dream of messing a client around. I do what I say I will on the day I say I will . Always. Why should the trades not have to do this? Project management is not a dark art!

I think that the tradesman was unreasonable, he knows it was time sensitive and how random / obscure were the materials to get? Too often tradespeople flake out. My instinct is he chose to another job over yours that day and he is making up an excuse. Your husband sounds hyper-critical, if he is so great at negotiating and doing stuff like this then why didn't he?! Personally l never pay up front, l don't get paid in advance at work so l don't see why anyone else should.

Yes definately gained experience. Definately will not pay materials upfront again. But like I said, I did not pay without first getting an invoice.

What to do with husband though. Fucked if he doesn’t back me up on this.

He asked for the money to order the materials. He ordered the materials. He can't do the job before they arrive.

He agreed to refund you but said he would have to get the refund back for the materials so that he could return it to you.

He has been completely reasonable.

^ This.

YABU. He hasn’t done anything wrong here.

But I don’t actually want someone on my property and wasting my time if they can’t keep their word

You might be in for a long wait, I'm afraid. My comment of "Experience" wasn't said in a nice, light, airy tone you'd expect with tea and a cake. It's the bitter cynic from decades of dealing with tradespersons of all descriptions - in and out of court.

I think you really need to adjust your expectations, and learn the golden rule of the tradesperson: that they are doing you a favour. Once you have that embedded in your noggin you'll be a lot less stressed.

Many tradesmen simply don’t have the funds to pay for materials upfront. It’s normal to pay for them yourself.

It’s extremely annoying when things don’t go to plan but that’s life. Especially in the middle of winter. He might be very short of work and have said yes to your demands just to get the job despite knowing he couldn’t actually do it on schedule.

Now you are both in a fix. Your job is still not done and he’s got you on his back. I would have tried to find a compromise in this situation even though it’s irritating. You being self employed isn’t hugely relevant unless your field of work is also weather dependent and at the mercy of suppliers.

Ho hum professor slocombe, thanks for that perspective. You may be right. Just awful if so. But sincerely thanks for the perspective.

YABU. He hasn’t done anything wrong here.

Absolutely not! You made the timing a clear element of the contract, thus he is in breach of contract. BTW, many builders start when they say they will, although many are also notoriously disorganized.

A lesson learned. Although your DH could be more helpful.

Hahaha Matilda, my field of work is exactly like that. My hahaha is a cynical laugh, filled with memories of doing a job in the rain for a week recently.

For me YABU demanding the deposit back before he recieves a refund the point was to pay for the materials which he did now he needs to wait to be refunded.

The rest YANBU but neither is he if the materials haven't been delivered he can't do the job.

My other half is a tradesman and we have had a few male and female customers hysterical over things out of anyones control demanding unreasonable things because it's what they want. No tradesman wants to lose a booked job that they might not be able to fill but sometimes things happen.

Many tradesmen simply don’t have the funds to pay for materials upfront. It’s normal to pay for them yourself.

I've come across a few cases where a tradesperson knocks a customer for materials only for it to emerge that under the paperwork, it's really for their next job.

My advice, if a tradesperson "needs" an advance payment for materials is to get things buttoned down in a written contract with the ownership of the goods clearly apportioned to yourself not the tradesman.

(Actually that would be my second advice after "don't pay upfront". But that's another matter. Again, when you get as old, and ugly as me, you've seen a lot ...)

Yes to be honest I’m more upset at my husband now.

Surely he should back me up?

Have I really “put myself in a regrettable situation”, been “daft “ for expecting to get the job done when I wanted it and “hysterical “for cancelling the job and expecting money back?

It's really not normal to pay for materials upfront on a job. I say that as the daughter of a self-employed building consultant. Historically, the tradespeople who failed to pay my father on time for his work where the ones who demanded payment up front for materials from their customers.

I think it is reasonable for a tradesman to ask for a deposit for materials - if they don't I bet there are plenty of customers that "change their minds" about the job or the materials that they want to choose after the tradesman has already ordered them. Why should the tradesman take all the risk? Trust works both ways.

Obviously paying upfront means you would have to be super careful about knowing who you were using. Agreeing the materials and ordering them yourself to be delivered to your home is a good compromise - obviously not every tube of sealant for a bathroom but 2K worth of slabs for a patio can easily be ordered by the customer for home delivery. it can be a good compromise.

Yep lesson learnt. I will never pay upfront again. Even if I am protected by an invoice and written conversation agreeing terms. I just remembered that sometime in my work I occasionally invoice in two stages on jobs. But yes, usually only with a substantial contract.

BTW, many builders start when they say they will, although many are also notoriously disorganized.

One of the more common issues I've dealt with over the years is Builder "Name" turns up does all the softwork, and is then never seen again while a succession of mates turn up to actually do the work. Which is another "gotcha" when employing a tradesperson: make sure you know whether you are employing a person, or a company ...

I did at one point wonder if the entire small trades industry of the UK were all employed in a sort of self fulfilling circle all fixing each others jobs ....

Interestingly if you had ordered and paid for the slabs yourself and they could not be delivered on time it would be you apologising to your tradesman as you could not supply the materials for him on the date that you had booked!

Never pay a deposit for materials. This is his business so he should allow funds to buy materials and invoice when job is complete. I would not use this person now as would not trust him. I would also leave a bad review stating he broke contract date to do job giving only one days notice he was not coming. Wait for deposit back but get someone more reliable who provides the materials.

Winter,

1- it would not happen, I would endure sufficient time and contingency time.

2- if it did I would expect to pay the contractor for their lost time in an agreed way as it was my error!