to be pissed off with this everyday sexism

[EmJay19]

So my MIL (and other family members) send cards
‘To Mr & Mrs J Bloggs’ for example, even though my initial isn’t J. What’s the sense in this? Wondering if she would do this if she had a daughter.
What are your everyday sexism bugbears?

Used to piss me off when I was married, especially as I hadn’t even changed my surname!

Yes, it's sexist etiquette. Something can be 'traditional' and also sexist. Why would anyone 'just do' something because an etiquette book told them to?

I've never been addressed like this in my life, and if I was I'd assume the sender was being ironic or was drunk. Women have their own initials, regardless of what a book says.

I’m interested if any of the people who say they address envelopes to John and Claire Smith “Mr & Mrs J Smith”, now they know many women find this not just archaic, but offensive, will drop the habit? If a couple do have the same surname then addressing Mr & Mrs Smith avoids the risk of causing offence, and it’s hardly likely that there’s another Smith family at the same address...

I've just remembered the older ladies at work (old enough to be my mother at the time - I'm that age now!) talking about one of their contemporaries who used to sign things off as "J Smith (Mrs)" where J was her husband's initial. Now that truly is bonkers.

It's old fashioned. Old people were taught to address letters like this. My aunt does this to me. I'd let it go personally.

Most letters I receive are addresses this way. The woman is always secondary and subjugates. I dislike it but I those that address me that way mean no harm. Now what about legal letters that address everyone, including women, as ‘Dear Sirs’? Time for that to go, yet it’s still standard.

*addressed
*subjugated

Typing on my phone here!

My kids' school always send home reports to Mr and Mrs DH initial DH Lastname... we are actually Dr DH Lastname and Dr My Lastname.

Just because something is traditional or etiquette doesn't mean it shouldn't change. Times change and society changes. This should too - and it will.

Even worse my SIL sends cards meant for both me and DH (so Christmas/anniversary etc) addressed just to him! Drives me mad!

@namechanger

What is the correct way to address a letter to a married couple who are both doctors, but who have the same last name? I’ve wondered about this in the past.

I think this practice dates from a time when women were proud to be able to show the world how lucky they were to have snared a husband!!!

I haven't changed my name for most things such as Bank Accounts, Cards, Driving Licence, but will change my passport when it expires, only because it makes things easier when you go on holiday, particularly to the Middle East! I prefer my original name anyway.

When your out for the night and people ask "oh is dad babysitting tonight?"

My reply "no, why?"
Person "oh who's with them?"
Me "their dad"
Person very confused look...
Me very confused look..

Dances on my bloody nerves...

I think it's a specific MIL thing PP on this thread have said their mothers do it, or they do it themselves, yet it's a MIL thing

it reminds us how recently we were the literal property of men So when was the last time that men were able to sell their wives? Yes, until relatively recently, women's property was considered to belong to their husband, their children were considered to be their husband's, they weren't able to divorce ... but they weren't themselves property. It doesn't do any favours to overstate the case.

I'm in my 50's. That was how I was taught to address an envelope/letter. I didn't even know people were offended by it until I read it on MN.

Now what about legal letters that address everyone, including women, as ‘Dear Sirs’? What's the alternative when you don't know the name of who will be reading the letter? Dear Sir/Madam sounds dreadful, mainly because "Madam" sounds merely pompous, not respectful. Emails are OK, because you can ditch the salutation entirely, or just put something like "Good morning", but I've not found what the solution is for letters.

What I really, really hate is being addressed as Ms when it’s just to me. I see that as a divorced or separated woman.

Oh Jesus. Not this one again.

It does not mean that. It means ‘woman who does not wish to advertise her marital status through her title.’

@bluebella4 I'm using that line next time.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I cant wait to marry dp and take his surname. To me it just feels like what you do when you are married.
Sometimes now we get letters addressed to Mr and Mrs his surname and I like seeing it.
I dont know why but unless I'm told otherwise I would assume anyone getting married would take their husbands name. However if I knew I certainly wouldn't address them as their husbands name because it's not their name if that makes sense.

It's definitely sexist.

silly questions about how I cope I'd have wanted to ask you how you coped (10 or 20 years ago, not so much now) - but I wouldn't be asking you how you coped with the job, I'd be asking you how you coped in what was seen as a sexist environment. Are you sure that's not what you were being asked?

What I really, really hate is being addressed as Ms when it’s just to me. I see that as a divorced or separated woman. Well, you'd be wrong in that assumption. "Ms" was the term adopted by women of any marital status who objected to the requirement to reveal their marital status to complete strangers when the same was not required of men. It does not signify that the user is divorced or separated.

My mother did this - once - after I was first married. I did point out to her that I wasn't simply an appendage to DH and still had my first name. She didn't do it again. It was the way she was taught to do it at school, and worked as a class teacher for her entire career so was never in the position of sending out letters or official correspondence.

Also, she and dad both have the same first initial so if she receives a letter through the post it will say "Mrs A Smith" irrespective of whether the writer means Mrs Ann Smith or Mrs Andrew Smith. So it's never occurred to her that it's an issue.

@crispysausagerolls I’d be keen to see what else is in an etiquette book!

I get post sent to me as Mr & Mrs Bloggs even though I’m not married to DP. Really winds me up

@iwantacookie Soon shuts them down. Sometimes opens a debate but that's fun too lol.

Any etiquette book will
Tell you to do this. I sent out my wedding invitations like this and send out Christmas cards and other formal letters the same. It’s just what you’re supposed to do! I wouldn’t think of it as sexist if I received a letter like this. It’s just traditional.

So any time ink touches paper it creates incontrovertible correctness and rules that must be accepted and adhered to? Employ a little critical thinking here please.
Such guides, like debretts, will tell you how and when to curtsy to superiors like Prince Andrew (nope, won’t be doing that) and how to address a hereditary lord (Hey, you entitled twat should suffice, I think)
Good etiquette is addressing people how they’d like to be addressed.

Its just what you’re supposed to do! Supposed by whom? 🤔

And don’t get me started on “traditional”!