to be pissed off with this everyday sexism

[EmJay19]

So my MIL (and other family members) send cards
‘To Mr & Mrs J Bloggs’ for example, even though my initial isn’t J. What’s the sense in this? Wondering if she would do this if she had a daughter.
What are your everyday sexism bugbears?

Even my very non-feminist, born in the 1940s mother objects to this convention! Etiquette changes over time and I really can't believe that this is still considered good etiquette.

I agree with you said there, whyamidoingthis; I didn't change my name on marriage and am certainly in favour of the wife's name being the "family" name.
However, that wasn't the point you initially made nor the one I responded to.

That would wind me right up!

@EmJay19 I genuinely don't give a shit.

I do find it baffling though that some women get all huffy about other women getting married, and taking HIS name, and thinking 'Mr and Mrs J Smith' is sooooooo outdated and 'sexist,' and some women even refuse to get married, because you know 'patriarchy.'

Yet the VAST MAJORITY of women who have kids with a man they are not married to, seem quite happy to give the kids HIS surname. Why? Do they secretly hope and wish that he will marry her? Otherwise, why give the kids HIS name? Now THAT baffles me!

Batshit.

Blimey it never occurred to me that this could cause so much offence. I'm mid 30s and have always addressed letters like this. Mind you it's not often I send them and I suppose it is to the older generation. Never had any comments though. For my peers I tend to write "The Surnames". I also indent each line of the address as I was taught (by my DM not through formal education though I think)

Sooo annoying. Feels like it’s just one step away from Offred really doesn’t it!

@LowbrowVictoriana - However, that wasn't the point you initially made nor the one I responded to

Of course it wasn't the point I originally made. It would be a bit boring if we all just repeated the same point over and over again.

I responded to your point about women choosing to use their dh's surname and pointed out that, while it might be a choice, it is also an example of everyday sexism as it is women who generally change their names. My point about taking the woman's name was to reinforce the fact it was sexism as, if it wasn't, people would take the logical approach and use the woman's name.

And that all ties back to my original point of the irony I perceive when women who are happy to uphold one sexist tradition wrt their name are affronted by the further step of addressing them using another, similar, naming tradition.

I do this and I’m mid thirties. Didn’t realise I was causing so much offence! I’m going to start checking whether our friends do the same, and adjust accordingly for those that don’t as I wouldn’t want to cause annoyance. Personally I don’t have an issue with it at all!

whyamidoingthis I disagree that it's everyday sexism. That phrase is bandied about tediously frequently. If a woman chooses to change her name on marriage who is being sexist, and towards whom?
It is upholding an outdated, patriarchal tradition, that's for sure, but in itself it's pretty harmless.
However the insistence or expectation -these days - that a woman change her name IS sexist. Thankfully, though, it is a choice.
And you don't see why Debbie would object to being called Paul? OK then 🤷

@LowbrowVictoriana - You're right. Everyday sexism is not the correct term for women changing their name. I used the term as it was used in this thread to describe someone being addressed as Mrs hisname hisname. I would put both practices on a par with one another as examples of outdated patriarchal traditions.

And yes, I agree, where the sexism kicks in wrt name changing is not that a woman is expected to change her name (although that is sometimes the case - I fought long and hard to get my kids' school to use my actual name in communications) but that if a name is to be changed, it is the woman's.

And you don't see why Debbie would object to being called Paul?

I never said that. I simply said I found it ironic.

@TigerOnATrain - On what do you base your claim that the “VAST MAJORITY” of unmarried mothers give their children the fathers name? Have you done a poll?

It’s utterly depressing that so many women (even many younger women) think that an appropriate (and indeed correct) way to address other women is with their husbands first name. Wtaf!

I see it as affectionate from MIL's point of view - a sign of inclusion if you will. Anyway, it's a bloody envelope, tear it up and throw it out (into the recycling bin of course!)

The Mr and Mrs is irrelevant.

Just put A.Person and B Person or A and B Person

I was taught it at school too, probably in the early 90s. I did go to a very old fashioned school though, they banned barely black opaque tights on the grounds that “prostitutes wear them”. (Do they? I don’t know many prostitutes IRL but the ones I see on TV are not wearing opaque tights).

I don't like the method of address at all but it does reflect that fact that. If you change your name on marriage and take the married title you become the Mistress of Joe Bloggs. Mrs Bloggs is Mrs Joe Bloggs as opposed to Mrs Fred Bloggs or Mrs George Bloggs. Bit inconsistent to object to the middle bit but be still fine with the first and the last! Ditch the lot.

Younger people seem to get annoyed with lots of things these days, even with the topic of this post. It's a very small thing to get annoyed about, and it is just an older fashioned way, that people were taught to write years ago.

You will just have to wait until all oldies have faded away and gone, then you can write how you like.

Yep my MIL makes a point of addressing things to Mr and Mrs x married surname. Even though I'm Dr maiden name!

Same. Gives me the rage.

We get things addressed like this and don't give it a second thought, whoever picks it up first opens it, job done.

There are far more important things in life to be concerned about.

It’s sexist and old fashioned and I can’t believe anyone still does it. Just because you learnt it at school doesn’t mean you should continue with it. No spring chicken here either - I’m 48.

I had a semi ironic text this morning from a successful school friend. Her new mortgage has hit a bureaucratic bump as they cannot compute that 1st property, bought and paid for in her maiden name, will be the money used for the new property in her married name. Exasperated she said "and it is 2020 ffs". Ignoring that she took her SAHP's surname when she married him

Younger people seem to get annoyed with lots of things these days, even with the topic of this post. It's a very small thing to get annoyed about, and it is just an older fashioned way, that people were taught to write years ago.

Agreed. I'm at a loss as to how people can get the "rage" as they call it over some writing on an envelope that, within 5 seconds of being opened is probably going in the bin and more than likely the contents of said envelope shortly after.

If something like this can get you angry, considering the shit that happens in life, your whole life must be spent angry and offended.

I went to self defence classes last year and the lady in charge said that women used to basically be their husband's property. All the women including myself got very pissed off hearing that!

Jeez, handmaidens galore. If some women really understood the history behind it maybe they'd feel differently.

If addressing to a couple I dont put an initial so just put Mr & Mrs Surname. I dont need to get too offended if someone uses Dh's first initial though as dh and I have the same first name initial anyway

It’s a formality from the past
Will totally die out very soon
Shrug