To wonder if they are nasty to most teachers ?

[Werkinggirl]

I've been in a new school for 3 weeks. To be fair it's a challenging school in a deprived area, but i've had so many nasty comments.
What annoys me is then when I see the nasty students being nice and showing respect to other teachers !
I follow the behaviour policy and apply C3s for both poor behaviour and work that is not complete or to a poor standard, and extreme issues I have them removed by on-call.
I'm shocked to see just how nasty some students are.
I've had quite a few nasty comments about my appearance, picking apart my face, analysing the way I walk, my voice, anything. Making fun of my mannerisms, things I didn't even realise I did !
Today a girl I have never taught shouted at me that my hair was a mess.
I've been told 'you peck head, you bore me' all sorts of stuff. Sworn at, told to shut up. If you ask them a simple instruction they about, "alright, jesus christ chill !" at you and make comments about how their old teacher is so much better, can actually teach etc.
Fortunately there are some lovely and hardworking students who I have never had issues with.
I've had 2 girls pretend to throw up when I walked past and say out loud "she's horrible".
I've managed to get some students on side and they know I expect the work to be done or it will result in a detention.
I had a class who behaved brilliantly and my last lesson with them I bought some biscuits. One girl whispered "Why the fuck is she handing out biscuits she's fucking weird".
There are of course known troublemakers who play up for every single teacher, but I feel like a failure when I see the other teachers getting so much respect, as I feel I am very fair.
I've only been there 3 weeks and don't know if I can take the constant nastiness and rudeness. If a peer were speaking to me like that I would just shut them down, but in school we have to be the example and be professional. What would you do ?

And there is a gulf a mile wide between being sworn at and somebody swearing in your presence. If it's just come out because they weren't thinking and used their everyday language, a 'look' and 'different words, please, Michael' usually gets an 'Oh, shit, I'm sorry Miss'. (Facepalms are a legitimate means of communication). If they're upset, frustrated and angry, just don't hear the swearing and ask 'How can I help?'.

You're the grown up. You're supposed to be in control - of yourself, first and foremost. The screeching, bellowing and raging is either funny if they are in a group large enough to know they're safe, but a fuckton of those 'feral' kids associate that increase in pitch and volume with being hit. Because it's the sound of somebody losing control - and it scares them, causes a rush of adrenaline and they will respond with the fight or flight response. Literally.

Just get to the point. Short sentences. Smile. Use please and thank you genuinely, not sarcastically. Use non verbal communication. Hand out praise. If they do something good (and god knows, sometimes you've got to look bloody hard for it - it might be in the playground or a week later where you see them helping another staff member or a Year 7 who was crying), give them achievement points for it, send a postcard home, call Mum and, instead of her usual 'Oh God, now what?' or ignoring your call, tell her/leave a voicemail to say that you wanted her to know that Ashleigh did x or y really well/was very kind/worked very hard in your lesson today.

In all my time, I've met one kid who had absolutely zero redeeming features. And I'm sure that somebody somewhere was able to find one good thing about him.

For the person who said they saw future inmates in their school, what they mustn't forget is that they were also looking at past, present and future victims at exactly that moment. Only seeing the first means there is no chance of addressing or preventing the second. And that starts with you being under control and talking to them, instead of at them.

@Wellmet

OP - Wellmet is absolutely right. I 100% agree, as a teacher.

About the teacher who went mad over a pencil usage mistake for 5 minutes - I really don’t think that’s the sort of approach you should be trying to hone for yourself. It doesn’t produce an atmosphere conducive to learning. It just gets backs up and makes people afraid of making a mistake. In my view, it’s very bad behaviour management.

Accept how things are and work with it. Your expectations aren’t in line with reality. I felt the same way as you when I started. Changing myattitude was the absolute best thing I’ve ever done.

When you decided to be a teacher, what sort of teacher did you want to be?

Did you want to be the teacher that is remembered by many as the one who actually cared and wanted them to do well? If so, my advice is to actually be less strict and more collaborative with the students. A lot of children may just need an arm around them (probs not physically!), and a teacher who is firm, fair and cares.

The worst teachers are the ones who dare not deviate from their discipline policy, fail to take into account the child as an individual and act defensively because they don’t know how to come down off of their high horse.

I suspect you care deeply, which is why their words have upset you.

Wow.

Just wow. When did it become so commonplace for pupils to speak to their teachers like that, without any sort of sanction? I only left school 7 years ago. You wouldn’t dare tell a teacher to “shut up” or make audible insulting remarks. Even if it were a supply.

The shrugged off comments in this thread astound me also. When I was at school, less than a decade ago, kids were excluded for doing less than these horrific teenagers are doing to the poor OP.

While I agree that children, particularly teenagers, will push boundaries with a new teacher, the attitude of these particular kids is vile and atrocious. It’s not normal OP, I’m certain its nothing you’re doing that’s wrong. Their parents have not brought these teens up with respect for anybody, not just their teachers.

I don't know if it was me who gave the example of the pencil usage mistake? I wouldnt go mad for 5 minutes about a child borrowing a pencil! I was trying to give an example of a child making excuses for disrupting learning after a number of warnings and how I would deal with it. It was obviously a poor example. I have tried to offer strategies i think are useful.

Who raises these kids that think the teachers need to 'earn' their respect?

When I taught sports the worst kids to teach were year nine. It’s such a strange year as they really do try and flex there new found confidence and arseholery.

You need to look at your body language and tone of your voice. Shoulders back, chin up and a ‘I’m not taking shit today’ look on your face, zero tolerance to bad behave or snide comments. Honestly I had to change my whole demeanour and even my walk for this year.

Dont let them beat you. Your not their friend. You are there to give them the opportunity to learn if they won’t they leave the area immediately.

Regarding not turning up for detention- what do the school do about that?

If it is a challenging school then it may have a high staff turnover. We do, as well as high staff absence. I work in a v challenging school and our kids just don't expect teachers to stay long enough for them to get to know them, to build relationships. As sad as it is some of these kids will have already got used to being abandoned by people they trust ( in our school we have lots of blended families that suddenly disappear when mum and partner or dad and partner split up) so they take longer to come round. It's a defence mechanism for some. The existing teachers have already 'proven' themselves trustworthy.

The best thing you can do it be consistent, as once the students realise that what you say is what you do they will come around. In our school the rule is a term. If the teacher still works there after a term things get better.

@lolasmiles

Excellent description of teachers styles. Absolutely correct. ( wish I didn’t have the D type in my department)

I haven't read the whole thread, but after 2 pages I couldn't believe the comments about the biscuits!

Of course it is totally okay to bring in a treat at the end of teaching a class. Its nice for both the kids and the teacher. Of course the students are being awful.

I work in abroad in a private school and it is joy to teach the kids. They are polite, friendly and hard-working. I have taught kids like in the OP and it is horrible and soul-destroying. Hence, why I moved. The UK is a hotbed of social problems, teachers are going to get it first and it will take generations to resolve if ever.

My advice to the OP: move to australia. You'll get double the pay and almost none of the grief. In my city, a substantial proportion of the teachers are british and they wouldn't go back. I admit it is not a practical solution for most, but it will change your view of teaching in the UK radically.

@SachaStark challenge how exactly? Can you give examples of things you might say to a 'whispered' comment regarding your appearance where the stock reply you'll get is 'I didn't say anything miss'

Spot on Vulpine - I don’t think any effort care or forethought goes into their ‘raising’ and many primary caretakers abdicate their responsibilities completely - it’s a frightening scenario -

MitziK gives excellent advice. Remember it’s not personal, no matter how much it feels like it. Stay calm and focus on primary, not secondary behaviour.

I've been a teacher for a lot of years and have changed schools a fair few times too. Here's my advise op

1. The first months in a new school are always tough- regardless of how long you've been teaching. It will get better once they know you and your standards.
2. Pick your battles. If students whisper about a teacher, personally, I'd ignore it. Students will always have comments to make to their peers about teachers- always have, always will. Don't take it personally- it's not you they're commenting about- it's their teacher! Obviously if it's out loud or to your face then deal with it in the usual ways of your school.
3. Talk to your head of department. Why is poor behaviour not being followed up on? Make sure it is- don't just log it. Do the detention yourself if no one else does and always, always ring home.
4. Build relationships. Run an extra curricular group, say hello to kids on corridors. Find out a bit about students and what makes them tick and use it to have a conversation with them when you're on duty etc.
5. Talk to other staff. Sometimes in your classroom it can feel like you're isolated and you are not. Get other staff on board to help you.

And if all else fails remember that not all schools are the same. Tougher schools tend to have higher staff turn over and so students become very reluctant to build bonds with new staff. They test you to see whether you'll stay or whether you'll go as well.

Teaching is tough and that's why so many leave but I promise you, your second year in that school will be a breeze compared to your first.

Surreyhillsbutnobike
I also have a D type in my department.

I'm an A type 95% of the time and quite happy to be unpopular B type short term when needed so that long term we become A type. Our D decided to give me behaviour management advice when I was sharing some frustration after a situation. Apparently my challenging students love him, him and the students have an understanding. D is young and naïve and doesn't realise that the students in question don't respect him at all, meanwhile they respect me and know that all will be forgiven by next lesson.

If you write them up for verbal abuse for every incidence of bitchy whispering and giggling you never win them over. It'll let them know you're easy to wind up and become a game for them. 'Running to management' too much just shows them you think you cant cope and need protection, that you're afraid of them and you will be perceived as a weak snitch - in a teenager's mind.

I worked in a special school for very (!!!) troubled kids and new teachers are tested by students - can you cope, can they make you lose it, can they make you cry, can they shock you, can they make you leave quickly. They don't trust you or respect you because the majority of adults in their lives are not trustworthy or deserving of respect. Show weakness and you're dead - and I'd put writing up for whispering, dirty looks and giggling as a sign of weakness to them. New teachers for these students need the skin of a rhinoceros and to not take anything personally no matter how personal it gets.

They're not targeting you as an individual, but as a new adult in their lives where adults have proven themselves to be shits to them again and again. To expect these kids to respect you or anyone within 3 weeks is unrealistic!! Even 3 minths is too soon. Of course teachers should be, but it's not the reality of school life. Their parents are probably feeding them the education is a waste of time and teachers are wankers mentality they believe.

They expect you to give up and leave because pretty much everyone else has. To them getting you to do so asap is safer - they don't want to get attached, to start depending on someone when they know they just get left again eventually anyway.

I was told in my first week that their aim was to make me leave, just like everyone else did (I was their 5th teacher in less than 4 years!). I told them to bring it on. Got called a pikey Irish cunt daily for about six months. Down graded to Irish cunt for another six. Then it was just Irish or cunt depending on the crap that was going on at home. By the same kids who cried when I left after 3 years (due to management not the kids)!!

Thick skin, faith in yourself and a sense of humour is your armour. Not management. My answer to pikey Irish cunt was 'I'm way too posh and stuck-up to be a traveller' with a big smile. Then I'd go cry in the toilet!

respectfully, you’re approach is wrong.

You don’t want them to like you. You want them to respect you.

They can smell weakness. They will exploit it.

Teaching is less about subject matter and more about classroom control in a lot of schools nowadays. Good luck.

PS - I can spell, I promise.

Your, not you’re

Can you give examples of things you might say to a 'whispered' comment regarding your appearance where the stock reply you'll get is 'I didn't say anything miss'

I usually give a withering look and say something like ‘I’m neither deaf, nor stupid, so don’t bother trying that line.’

Can you give examples of things you might say to a 'whispered' comment regarding your appearance where the stock reply you'll get is 'I didn't say anything miss'

If it’s quiet enough I’d ignore, loud enough to hear i would give a warning (or whatever the first stage of school system is) and totally blank any protestations about “I didn’t say anything” 🤷🏻‍♀️

I read this thread last night but honestly wasn't sure what to say. @Werkinggirl, it sounds horrendous and well done to you for sticking it out this long as a Supply!

(On a side note, I wouldn't bother getting this moved to The Staffroom - not only have you had generally good advice on here, but there is always at least one troll even in there, who likes to enter specifically to say that teachers shouldn't be allowed their own chat area .)

I sympathised especially with your thread, as it made me wonder what behaviour at the feeder high school for my primary could be like. I also work in an exceptionally deprived area and am on longish-term supply, working throughout the primary.

Obviously, behaviour will never be as challenging, in the same sense, at this age. However, I have really had to work hard to establish myself with the classes I regularly teach and it does work, especially with a supportive culture from SLT. They now know that I mean what I say, and the behaviour policy still applies when I am in class instead of their ususal teacher. I don't think the older kids, who I only tend to see in the corridors, fully respect me yet, but that will take even longer.

You either need to commit to building their trust (although I agree that basic respect must be demanded within the ethos and policies) or move on. I have also worked in Independent schools and done Supply in 'leafy' areas - they are not without their problems, but if you don't want to constantly be managing behaviour, it may be a good way forward for your RQT year.

Sorry for long post. I wish you the very best of luck. Xx

@Thingsdogetbetter

What an impressive and touching post. I which every teacher could have some of you. I am a strong "academic" teacher. I can plan the lessons, mark the homework and get the grades. But I never thought I could do the "hard" stuff that you do, which is actually way more important than getting kids into Oxbridge.

You have actually given me a way to practically envision returning to the state sector to help kids who really need it, rather than sheltering in the safe private system abroad. Thank you

Farontothemaddingcrowd
I don't know if it was me who gave the example of the pencil usage mistake?
No it was the op

I work in abroad in a private school and it is joy to teach the kids. They are polite, friendly and hard-working. I have taught kids like in the OP and it is horrible and soul-destroying. Hence, why I moved. The UK is a hotbed of social problems, teachers are going to get it first and it will take generations to resolve if ever
Are you comparing like with like? Did you teach in a private school in the UK and have you taught in any Australian schools with a high proportion of students with social problems?

I think I need to start ringing more parents, the problem is that some are not supportive and will automatically believe the child over you.

Phone the parents of the good ones.

Tell them how nice their child is, and that you are aware of the disruption caused by other students, that you are settling in and even though you might not get chance to say anything in class they are not forgotten.

Depending on your subjectschol policies give them a treat if you can.

In FE I've often let students have music on when doing individual work, either their own with headphones or the radio via the whiteboard - let them choose the station.

One of my subjects involved a lot of making posters, I have a tin with frozen characters on it, inside are frozen themed felt tip pens - You will be amazed how much 15 year olds like to use the 'frozen pens'.

Set out you expectations, and tell them what they can expect from you.

Use a seating plan.

Don't take it personally, it isn't personal. One class called me 'Miss Trunchbull' I just laughed and went with it.