To wonder if they are nasty to most teachers ?

[Werkinggirl]

I've been in a new school for 3 weeks. To be fair it's a challenging school in a deprived area, but i've had so many nasty comments.
What annoys me is then when I see the nasty students being nice and showing respect to other teachers !
I follow the behaviour policy and apply C3s for both poor behaviour and work that is not complete or to a poor standard, and extreme issues I have them removed by on-call.
I'm shocked to see just how nasty some students are.
I've had quite a few nasty comments about my appearance, picking apart my face, analysing the way I walk, my voice, anything. Making fun of my mannerisms, things I didn't even realise I did !
Today a girl I have never taught shouted at me that my hair was a mess.
I've been told 'you peck head, you bore me' all sorts of stuff. Sworn at, told to shut up. If you ask them a simple instruction they about, "alright, jesus christ chill !" at you and make comments about how their old teacher is so much better, can actually teach etc.
Fortunately there are some lovely and hardworking students who I have never had issues with.
I've had 2 girls pretend to throw up when I walked past and say out loud "she's horrible".
I've managed to get some students on side and they know I expect the work to be done or it will result in a detention.
I had a class who behaved brilliantly and my last lesson with them I bought some biscuits. One girl whispered "Why the fuck is she handing out biscuits she's fucking weird".
There are of course known troublemakers who play up for every single teacher, but I feel like a failure when I see the other teachers getting so much respect, as I feel I am very fair.
I've only been there 3 weeks and don't know if I can take the constant nastiness and rudeness. If a peer were speaking to me like that I would just shut them down, but in school we have to be the example and be professional. What would you do ?

A poster suggested you said 'at least what I'm saying sounds intelligent. ' Mocking a kid for not being intelligent is the worst thing you can do! A lot of these kids have extremely low confidence, which is why they cover it with bravado. You destroy their ego - they will never work for you. As a teacher, you have to make them believe that there's a point in working - that they can achieve. Why would you destroy that by insinuating that they are stupid? That's tapping into their worst fears.
As long as SLT support you and the behaviour policy is applied consistently- you will get there. If SLT do not support you or ensure the policy is followed further up the chain, find another school.

At my school, there is a central register for detention and if students don't turn up, SLT collect them for an hour on Friday. We don't need to follow it up - it happens automatically. If they miss that, they are put in isolation for a day. You are backed up and you don't waste time chasing kids. The kids know that there are consequences and every member of staff follows the policy consistently.

If a child misbehaves, I'm calm and I inform them of the sanction if appropriate. If they try to argue, I direct them to the school policy. It's not personal and it takes the heat out of the situation. I also take the opportunity to praise and ask kids about their day etc. It's not the child I'm punishing, I'm sanctioning their behaviour. This only works in a good school with effective management, however.

I agree with pacy lessons. They need to be well planned, with scaffolding and challenge. There should be no opportunity for boredom. Fast placed activities, clearly planned and with goal setting.

Also, if you’re changing schools at Christmas during your NQT was there a problem at your previous school? If so I really feel for you; the NQT year is very difficult and having to start somewhere new in in the middle of it after a bad experience must have made it even tougher.

You’re an NQT. Kids test NQTs. You’re starting part-way through the year. Kids hate change. You are therefore doubly screwed before you’ve even got in the classroom. Young and female? Triply screwed.

I despair at how many posters - teachers or not - are willing to rationalise the appalling behaviour of these children. In any other context, this would be victim blaming.

How are you punishing the students that are being so rude to you? When I was teaching any student that had sworn or been so rude would have been immediately removed from my lesson whether they denied it afterwards or not. I think some school's behaviour management policies are sometimes quite vague and applied completely differently across a school, which is not helpful.

Kids do test boundaries. I mentored an NQT who had similar issues. She was initially being far too lenient with the children. At one point she wanted me or another teacher to tell the students they needed to stop being rude. I had to give her quite specific advice in the end as to what should be punished. She also took things the students quite personally. Although for some people it is easier said than done, having a thick skin does help in teaching. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and for some people behaviour management is something they have to work harder at.

I think most teachers at a new school for 3 weeks would still be establishing their behavioural expectations. Although, some subjects will obviously spend more time with their classes.

*took the things students had said quite personally.

In any other context, this would be victim blaming.

Don’t be stupid. It’s far from victim blaming to say that young, female NQTs who start partway through the year will be tested by kids, it’s an explanation for their behaviour that says exactly that it’s not the victim’s fault

Oh OP please hang in there. Both my girls attend secondary school and I am always shocked 😮 at what they tell me some of the pupils say to teachers ! As others say, develop a thick skin and carry on as you are. Keep reporting bad behaviour. My daughters are in a mixed area with both affluent and deprived areas, and some of the well off children are awful, rude and entitled too!

Quite often teachers will bring sweets and chocolates in to my children’s classes and I think it is lovely.

Just keep calm and carry on, it will pass 🌷

Awww, I think my son would love to have you as a teacher, my son goes to one of the worst schools in my area ( wasn’t my choice! He didn’t get into his preferences) he’s in the top set so for the most part he’s with the kids that aren’t too disruptive but when he’s in his form time or mixed classes he hates it due to the rudeness and disruptive behaviour.

What then happens is the teachers end up having a go at him for the most minor of things As they are so fed up with the other little gits they sort of end up tarnishing everyone with the same brush or despite my ds always producing good work and handed in on time he never quite gets the recognition for it as they are so busy trying to get the disruptive kids to behave any which way by essentially bribing them with merits etc.

I personally couldn’t be a teacher as I’m old school and my teaching methods would be considered illegal, lol but try not to be too hard on yourself, make sure you report the kids that are being abusive, you will eventually come across some kids that will make you very proud. you are very new to it all and I’m sure eventually you will find the right balance and best way to move forward

@Werkinggirl I have experienced exactly what you describe. I taught in a tough school and joined in the February so part way through.
I had the rudeness, non compliance and downright disrespectful behaviour to contend with. Know exactly where you are coming from!
It's not you and there is zero excuse for rudeness whether you are an experienced teacher or new to the profession !! You do need to firmly establish boundaries and consistency is the key. It will come with time! They should not be commenting on your personal appearance so firmly state "that is rude and inappropriate". They may laugh but keep following the behaviour policy and log everything. Ring home too. You will find some parents don't give a toss but some will be supportive.

I found that most of the time the kids who acted up and gave staff a hard time were nice enough kids under the unpleasant exterior. If you encounter them 1-1 or in a small group they can be totally different. Quite often this unpleasant behaviour is masking a self esteem issue on their part and they are trying to look cool in front of their mates. It's not personal to you.

Big smiles, sarcasm. LAUGH AT THEM

Please don’t do this.

Sarcasm can only be used - sparingly - with students you know really well.

Couple of questions:

What does the school behaviour policy say about verbal abuse of staff?

How is behaviour overall in the school?

Bloody hell that sounds horrendous.

I was the teacher who could quell a class by a raised eyebrow or dramatic sigh and eyes raised to heaven.

Then I moved schools.

Different ballgame. But I have experience on my side, realise that kids will ALWAYS find you weird (even if they like you) and it's not you, it's them. I also know that it will take time to build up the relationships I used to have-but hopefully quicker than when I.first started.

These children sound utterly vile. Who would want to teach them.

These children sound utterly vile. Who would want to teach them

They are the product, by and large, of their life. Writing them off does little to help anyone.

I find that constantly repeating yourself instead of getting drawn in to an argument helpful.
'Miss, why am in in trouble - i just needed to borrow a pen..'
'You disrupted another student's learning by talking. You are in detention on friday.'
'That's ridiculous.' Under their breath 'stupid cow.'
'If you are rude to a member of staff you will be removed from the room. You are in detention on Friday for disruption. If you choose to argue you will be removed from the room.'

Be clear about your expectations at the outset. I usually give clear warnings if the behaviour is low level and then I apply the sanction consistently and without emotion. I do genuinely care about the students and take an interest in them and I think they know that, but that has to be built up over time.

You're not there to be liked. Nor laughed at. If you ignore their comments, then you are showing weakness. You should never allow children to say anything nasty about you within ear shot. Haul them up on that behaviour Infront of the rest of the class. Tell them that it is unkind/bullying and ask how they would feel if you stood there in front of the class and openly dissected all their flaws. They don't respect you. They will only respect you if you are fair, consistent and really strict. Also, get your head of year inside to deal with any bullying or. Unpleasant comments.

Avoid dealing with confrontational behaviour in front of a whole class if you want to de-escalate a situation. Fragile egos - they will argue with you rather than lose face. Not a good idea. Do it privately. In front of the whole class make the offenders aware that there will be a sanction and that you will deal with it at the end. Do so, but isolate the student from their peers rather than create a public spectacle.

Haul them up on that behaviour Infront of the rest of the class

Are you a teacher?

I think this is awful advice. It’s imperative that sanctioning is done in a totally dispassionate way. Attempting to humiliate a student escalates situations massively.
Sanction efficiently and turn your - and the class’s- attention back to learning.

If the poor behaviour is happening in a lesson, it will be the head of dept who will deal with it. Outside of lessons or general pastoral issues will be dealt with by the head of year.

@SmileEachDay totally agree. There is some absolutely dreadful advice on here which makes me question whether the posters have ever taught teens.

It does sound challenging and as if the school system isn't supporting you. The NQT year is hard and a huge learning curve. A little bit like you only learn how to drive after passing your driving test. The NQT year is the first time you are the one in charge of a class so is when you are learning to teach to your own style.

Are you getting your extra free periods? What are you doing with them? I'd advise a very quick turn around with marking. Walk around marking during lesson where possible. Praise the good work, restate expectations where it is lacking. Ask your lead mentor who the best people to watch would be to get some support with behaviour management.

Do SLT stand at the gate/door on a morning? Stand with them for a week or two, if possible. One school I taught at always put a member of SLT either side of a new staff member at the start of a day. They felt there was a sort of transferred power there.

What happens when they don't attend detention? Some kids will skip the first one you give to see if you will escalate. Keep following the system and give it time. Make sure you take it further if they don't turn up.

Does your school do postcards home for positive behaviour? If yes, send some. One or two for each class. Or make positive phone calls home as well as reporting negative behaviour.

Persist with the negative phone calls. Have notes and a few stock phrases ready. Unfortunately, not all parents are supportive. The ones that aren't may mouth off but still ring. They may say something different to their child than they are saying to you. Keep a log of contact then escalate to your head of department.

My last piece of advice is to not allow them the headspace when it comes to their opinions. They are being nasty as they are used to teachers leaving. Is it right? No. Hold your head high and consider why you care what they think of you. You are an educated adult who earns money and has family and friends. I'd either ignore, laugh and say you aren't bothered what they think of your hair or give a withering look and move on.

So it is a multi-pronged approach. Gaining a reputation takes time. Be consistent and follow the system passed issuing detention. Mark everything quickly even though you are drained and it is probably the last thing you want to do. Expect more work. If they are messing around, they have too much time on their hands. Praise as well as negative consequences.

Agree with previous poster, always try to avoid a confrontation in front of the rest of the class. Keep calm, be firm and direct but don't get into a discussion or argument. Quickly return to the task to diffuse tension