To wonder if they are nasty to most teachers ?

[Werkinggirl]

I've been in a new school for 3 weeks. To be fair it's a challenging school in a deprived area, but i've had so many nasty comments.
What annoys me is then when I see the nasty students being nice and showing respect to other teachers !
I follow the behaviour policy and apply C3s for both poor behaviour and work that is not complete or to a poor standard, and extreme issues I have them removed by on-call.
I'm shocked to see just how nasty some students are.
I've had quite a few nasty comments about my appearance, picking apart my face, analysing the way I walk, my voice, anything. Making fun of my mannerisms, things I didn't even realise I did !
Today a girl I have never taught shouted at me that my hair was a mess.
I've been told 'you peck head, you bore me' all sorts of stuff. Sworn at, told to shut up. If you ask them a simple instruction they about, "alright, jesus christ chill !" at you and make comments about how their old teacher is so much better, can actually teach etc.
Fortunately there are some lovely and hardworking students who I have never had issues with.
I've had 2 girls pretend to throw up when I walked past and say out loud "she's horrible".
I've managed to get some students on side and they know I expect the work to be done or it will result in a detention.
I had a class who behaved brilliantly and my last lesson with them I bought some biscuits. One girl whispered "Why the fuck is she handing out biscuits she's fucking weird".
There are of course known troublemakers who play up for every single teacher, but I feel like a failure when I see the other teachers getting so much respect, as I feel I am very fair.
I've only been there 3 weeks and don't know if I can take the constant nastiness and rudeness. If a peer were speaking to me like that I would just shut them down, but in school we have to be the example and be professional. What would you do ?

It sounds awful

This is exactly what your NQT mentors are there to help you with. Speak to them and they should help you. If they don’t - you don’t want to be in that school.

Thank you, the advice is really appreciated. I will try not to take it personally.
I think what I will do is speak to the classes a whole and state that if I see any whispering or hear any rude comments that I will record it as verbal abuse.
One thing i've had from 2 year 11 students. They had been sat doing no work and started sleeping at the desk. After prompts to start, I went over again and asked them in a firmer manner, "You need to sit up and start the work right now please.", they replied "There's no need to speak to me like that." Because I was just doing my job. Just ridiculous.
I will keep trying to reward good behaviour. I did the stars of the week this week to reward excellent students and they seemed to appreciate it. I really hope it will improve with time and my behaviour management will get better.

I agree sometimes there's a fine line. Being told, "I don't think you'll be working long as a teacher" "You sound like an immature teenager" is unnecessary and unhelpful but these types exist on every thread

OP - think of it this way. Sometimes the odious little shits you describe grow out of their behaviour and become functioning adults with a modicum of courtesy. And others continue to be mean girls and come and post on AIBU !

The most effective sentence I've ever used is a visibly irritated but calm 'have I ever spoken to you like that? Well? Exactly. So why would you do it to me?'.
I use that approach a lot.
Along with "I appreciate X happened in period 2, but this is period 3 and I don't bring my frustrations from last lesson to you so ask you to do the same".

Read this book 'when the adults change, everything changes' by Paul Dix
Please don't. You'll end up beating yourself up that the reason students are verbally abusive is because you've not done a personalised handshake with each child every lesson.

The school behaviour on the whole is generally not great. I'm sure there is even worse, but it's pretty chaotic. There are the same known characters who are in isolation on almost a daily basis and have had a few fixed-term exclusions. They occasionally show up in some of my lessons but usually end up walking out.

However I discovered the vulnerable pupils list and it's as long as my arm. Some of them have absolutely terrible lives and it's very sad what they have been through. Also, I hate to say it but I can honestly see some of them in prison in a few years' time.

I was one of those horrible kids you're teaching now, but I was probably worse. I never assaulted a teacher, though: that wouldn't have been okay for me. But, belittling you, goading you, provoking you --fun. Especially if you're young, new, seem unsure of yourself, straight out of training, etc. Such fun to watch you lose control. Even funnier if you start crying.

Why did I, personally, behave like this?

power and control. I had none in my own life, and so I'd take it wherever I could find it.

I had a seriously shitty home life and all the adults I knew I couldn't trust, didn't respect, and I had to fight. As a teacher, you're just some faceless no-mark, and you have no higher value to me than any other person I encounter.

The idea that, as a teacher, you're worth more respect than anyone else in my life, would've been laughable. Respect is earned. It's not some automatic right. Teacher or not.

My top tip? Take the individuals that bother you the most, outside, individually. Tell them, calmly, that you're not happy with their behaviour towards you, and ask them if there's a problem in their home life and if they need extra support. That just takes the wind right out of their sails.

calling them out on their behaviour, in front of everyone else, puts them on the backfoot. They don't want to lose the respect of their peers, and so they'll escalate the drama so they don't lose face.

you'd be surprised how many of the kids don't see you as a person: you're just another authority figure, and if you came on to me all authoritarian, I'd make your life a misery. I'd probably steal your keys and lock you in the classroom. Daily. Until you got the message.

my second tip would be... get the ringleader to help you with tasks. Handing out books, collecting essays, running errands, writing on the board, etc, etc. You'd be surprised how much difference it can make for a 'bad' kid to be given some responsibility, to be brought into the school fold instead of excluded from it, to be seen as helpful rather than a problem.

hope it all works out for you, Werkinggirl.

@Werkinggirl I think in that scenario you would say 'I want you to try this question, as I think you will do really well in this subject if you put your mind to it. ' if they refuse - remind them of the sanction. Don't argue further. Teach the rest of the class and if they do no work, apply the sanction.

They had been sat doing no work and started sleeping at the desk. After prompts to start, I went over again and asked them in a firmer manner, "You need to sit up and start the work right now please.", they replied "There's no need to speak to me like that." Because I was just doing my job. Just ridiculous.
With being there to know the nuances, in a similar situation I would probably do the following:

• crouch next to them, speak quietly and say "so where are you up to?" At this point they will probably be rude/arsey and make a point about how they obviously haven't done anything
• "ok, so let's have a look at the start of the task" and ask them questions about the task so that eventually most students will end up giving an answer that shows they understand.
• "good, now you know... Do (insert a small chunk of the main task) and I'll be back in 5 minutes. (Walk around the room and praise someone doing the right thing).

In general, try to praise in public and sanction/challenge in private.

When speaking to them about their behaviour it helps to frame your expectations as a sign you care
Eg "I know you hate Maths/English, but I want you to do well and that means doing..."

Often the students who make the loudest noise and claim they don't care are desperate for someone to care.

Ok, so behaviour at the school generally is not great?

What is the system for dealing with verbal abuse?

Sammygirl i'm really sorry to hear what you went through. It's great you have managed to turn stuff around and I fully understand what you are saying. The responsibilty thing is a good suggestion.
Thanks, that's a good idea, I do try going around and telling them i'd like them to have a go, and that I think they can do very well in the subject.
This sometimes works with them but not always, the problem with some e.g. Year 11s is that they have already decided they are doing something e.g joinery next year, and they only need their core GCSEs. Some of them are just not bothered about non-core subjects and will refuse to work.

The SLT issued a warning next week saying that verbal abuse to staff will not be tolerated at all. A year 9 threatened a female assistant head with violence, and called her a 'fucking dyke' or something along those lines. He had a few days' exclusion and is now back in.
I recorded two incidents, one where a girl told me to shut up, another where a boy shoved a girl with force in the corridor. Flagged them as serious and nothing at all happened. Kids are now back in my lessons.
I think the behaviour policies as a whole are a little in consistent.

Kids are still in my lessons * I mean.

You mentioned a C3 earlier - is that part of a system in the school?

It sounds like you have a school problem. I would leave asap.

In the meantime though, keep applying policy. It's not personal and this experience will make you a better teacher in the long term.

Yes sorry we have c1-3. C1 is your first warning, c2 second, and a c3 results in detention or removal from the classroom depending on circumstances. If they were very disruptive or rude I would get on call, c3 if they hadn't done any work or truanting for example.

Op you sound lovely and very caring, I really wish you all the best! You are an asset to the school. The fact that you've posted on here shows you genuinely care and want to make a difference

I see. The policy sounds a bit fuzzy.

Certainly keep applying it - motor kids through the system quickly and without emotion.

Also - stand on the door and greet each child by name as they enter. It makes a huge difference (there’s a piece of fascinating research from Sweden about it!)

In general, try to praise in public and sanction/challenge in private
This.
If you challenge a teen with 20 peers around they won't back now.
Divide and conquer.

*down

I'm not entirely convinced that respect is earned in the classroom; when I was doing my PGCE, I was walking around my local town (where I didn't teach) and saw some lads throwing litter around. I barked, "Pick that up, now, and put it in the bin", and they did. It's partly the command in the voice. (No one could have been more surprised than I was, so I smiled, and so did they).

It doesn't surprise me that they're being rude to a new teacher to the school but the extent of it is absolutely unacceptable and I would be looking for another post while you're still low on the payscale. It's true that the majority behave better the more established a teacher is, but it sounds like what I'd consider quite extreme disrespect is commonplace there. Behaviour where I work is not good by any stretch either.

Thank you, that's really kind ! I'm trying to be positive and hopeful.
I thought of a teacher I worked with 2 years ago when I was a TA. She had come from an SLT background, she taught a year 8 English class and saw them most days. Right from the beginning they were terrified of her, she could shout ! She would literally scream at the class, and she really did manage to get them all silent and working.
I'm not sure it's the method I would use but I really admired her behaviour management. One time a boy used pencil when she had just told them not to. She réprimanded him in front of the entire class for a good 5 minutes, and she just n'aimes behaviour from the start.