To wonder if they are nasty to most teachers ?

[Werkinggirl]

I've been in a new school for 3 weeks. To be fair it's a challenging school in a deprived area, but i've had so many nasty comments.
What annoys me is then when I see the nasty students being nice and showing respect to other teachers !
I follow the behaviour policy and apply C3s for both poor behaviour and work that is not complete or to a poor standard, and extreme issues I have them removed by on-call.
I'm shocked to see just how nasty some students are.
I've had quite a few nasty comments about my appearance, picking apart my face, analysing the way I walk, my voice, anything. Making fun of my mannerisms, things I didn't even realise I did !
Today a girl I have never taught shouted at me that my hair was a mess.
I've been told 'you peck head, you bore me' all sorts of stuff. Sworn at, told to shut up. If you ask them a simple instruction they about, "alright, jesus christ chill !" at you and make comments about how their old teacher is so much better, can actually teach etc.
Fortunately there are some lovely and hardworking students who I have never had issues with.
I've had 2 girls pretend to throw up when I walked past and say out loud "she's horrible".
I've managed to get some students on side and they know I expect the work to be done or it will result in a detention.
I had a class who behaved brilliantly and my last lesson with them I bought some biscuits. One girl whispered "Why the fuck is she handing out biscuits she's fucking weird".
There are of course known troublemakers who play up for every single teacher, but I feel like a failure when I see the other teachers getting so much respect, as I feel I am very fair.
I've only been there 3 weeks and don't know if I can take the constant nastiness and rudeness. If a peer were speaking to me like that I would just shut them down, but in school we have to be the example and be professional. What would you do ?

Starting mid year is incredibly hard, I’ve done it twice (once as a new teacher to a school, the other time coming back from maternity leave). It’s early days and respect takes time to be established, life is a heck of a lot easier when you’ve been there a while! Just keep challenging it. I’ve always dealt with personal comments by saying something like “x saying “quote comment” is really rude, I don’t make fun of your voice / hair / whatever.” I try to make it more of a comment than a question as I don’t want to start an argument, more clocking that I’ve heard it, addressing it and pointing out that it’s bloody rude!

Sounds absolutely appalling. Little shits. Senior leadership need to support teachers and crack down hard on the behaviour of kids like this. With the best will in the world, no school is ever going to have only highly experienced teachers with amazing classroom management, so they need to support those who need it. If following the behaviour policy isn't working, the school need to do something about it. Makes me furious just reading about how vile they are to you OP. I'd be looking for another job tbh.

I'm not defending it, i'm explaining why I did it for only that lesson. So, none of you have ever done anything nice when a kid was leaving ? Alright. I have enough humility and am taking on board the helpful advice, thanks.

Also yes to boundaries and sticking to them and the school policy! Kids do push it to test you, especially as a mid year start (and more so if they’ve had lots of supply teachers prior to that). They’ll come around in time, but consistency is definitely key.

I don't think it's right but having been a teacher for over 10 years and worked in a few different schools I have found students feel you have to earn respect. I have found this to be the case in some schools and some students (often girls) more than others. I'm sure the other teachers aren't any better than you but they have built relationships with the pupils and this counts for a lot. If you like the school, keep doing what you are doing and following sanctions and hey will see you are sticking around and care about them so will start being nicer and behaving better.

@DisinterestedParty there isn't much point of you commenting. You are rude and un helpful. Don't comment again, it's not very interesting.

You aren't there to be liked, you aren't there to be their friend but you are there to teach them and if they like you it's a bonus. I would suggest that you go in, teach them and then leave. I would also suggest that the other teachers don't care so much about what they think of them and this is why they have less of their poor behaviour and bullying - bullies only bully people who care and who give them a sense of power. Look for your friendships in the staff room and save the biscuits for break time with your colleagues. The kids do think it's odd when a teacher gives out stuff so avoid it unless it's directly linked to the activity that you are doing. It can make teens very uncomfortable when the adults in their lives don't behave in the way that they are used to even if it's with the intention of gunging a treat or doing something kind.
It is hard learning to keep your distance but this is what we have to do for the sake of our sanity - even the nicest kids can be sneering at us behind our backs. Think about yourself at that age - think about what you admired in a teacher. I was a nice student and never in trouble but I really hated needy teachers who wanted to be our mate. My favourite teachers were the ones who knew their stuff, marked our work, got us through our exams/lessons and kept their distance while still having a sense of humour so that's what I try to be/do. It's not an easy balance and few of us always get it right but we just have to keep trying!

AIBU is a terrible place to get behaviour management advice. I would delete and repost in the staffroom.

You need to find the one or two really good behaviour managers in your school (ideally your department) who will give you time.

Thanks for the helpful advice. Im not trying to be their friend at all, but I don't want abuse shouted at me either. I will keep being firm and consistent and seek advice from behaviour team, hopefully it will improve in time.

I agree wholeheartedly with what Lolasmiles has to say! Stick to your guns. Your classroom, your rules though make sure you stick to the school behaviour policy.

You are not being unreasonable. Classroom management does get easier, especially if you've been there a long time. Say you were there for five years, I bet you'd get the respect you mention.
Should it be like this? No.
So much is tolerated by senior management.
I've left after fifteen years because, since I had a baby, I'm not willing to bend over backwards for other people's kids to the detriment of my own.
I intend to look for work outside of teaching when I back to the workforce.

OP, try reposting this in the staffroom section of MN. It sounds horrendous. Do you have a choice in where you can work? I'd be looking elsewhere, tbh. The parents don't back up the staff and detentions are not always dealt with properly. It sounds as though there's a management and a parent problem, as well as a pupil problem.

It doesn't work like that. They aren't going to automatically respect you, respect is earned
And this is precisely why people like the OP find it challenging to educate.
Some people genuinely believe that basic manners and courtesy isn't part of being a pleasant human being but something others in life have to earn.

I'm going to guess these posters also condone abusive to rail staff, receptionists in hospitals, shop assistants, after all they didn't EARN the respect? Or is it just teachers who are expected to tolerate verbal, and at times physical, abuse until such a time that teenagers decide the teacher has proven they are deserving of basic courtesy?

There's two types of respect:

1. Basic human courtesy and manners
2. The personal respect that develops over time from ongoing interactions and relationships.

Nobody has to earn the first type.

You sound a bit... desperate. You need calm authority.

Fine for you...you'll survive. No one ever died cos some teenagers were twats to them. Though with your attitude, not sure you'll be a teacher for very long.

I've been a teacher for nearly 25 years. I wouldn't stick around long in a school like the OP's. There is nothing wrong at all with the OP's attitude. There's plenty wrong with teenagers who behave like that though, and most likely plenty wrong with their parents, and plenty wrong with SLT who turn a blind eye to persistently offensive behaviour by large numbers of kids.

I recommend this resource very highly:-

www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2015/04/On-line-Catalogue22970.pdf

My dd often gets biscuits from teachers, I don’t think it’s a bribe.

OP, I feel for you, teenagers can be hard work, teaching isn’t something I could do as I’m not sure I could handle the attitude, I would either brake down and cry or loose my rag and shout at them.

My dd has lots of lovely teacher, most have a great sense of humour, the joke around a bit but also make learning fun and interesting. It’s a hard job and I have big respect for anyone that teaches.

If it makes you feel any better I have noticed that the schools where pupils behave like this in the first couple of years are the ones where they really learn to respect and trust you and I've formed the best relationships with them. Probably not helpful for you now though!

OP, I do long stints of supply in secondary at the moment (after needing to get the heck out of full time teaching!), so know a bit about what it’s like coming in part way through the year to pick up classes who feel a bit lost and pissed off after a string of short term covers stepping in.

My top tip would be to show them that you give the biggest of damns about them. They are looking for a leader who knows their shit inside out at the moment. Be that person for them. For example, if I’m coming in to a Year 11 class, who are clearly acting out because they’re upset at their Year 11 being “ruined” by a disruption in their staffing, I will pick the toughest poem they still have left in their anthology, take them through it in the finest of detail, have the answer to every question possible, until they can be certain that, “Yep, Mrs Stark knows her stuff, we can trust her.”

Next, I would set them a long piece of work to complete, and I would turn around that marking as fast as I possibly could. Again, to show that you give the greatest of damns about them and their education, and you are there to help them.

Then, I wouldn’t let a single nasty comment slide. I would challenge, not ignore. I did a lot of ignoring in my NQT year, and looking back now, it made me look weak. Nowadays, when that happens, I challenge everything. Comments as I pass in the corridor, everything. To be fair, if you can do steps one and two well enough, most of the kids will already be on your side, so you should have less of it already.

You might find they are being extra horrible on the basis of you only just qualified. Sounds horrible but children do it they always seem to behave better for the longer standing teachers that have also been teaching years. A newly qualified teacher is like a lamb being thrown to slaughter at behavioural schools.

My first school was in a very challenging area. Unlike you, I had the advantage of starting in September along with 12 other NQTs and 4 new members of staff. The kids didn't know what had hit them! Yes, they were really challenging. But what I found was that they did this because they were insecure. In my school a lot of them had very chaotic home lives. School was the stable consistent thing in their lives. When something changed in school, often suddenly, they didn't know what to do and resorted to aggression and snide remarks.

You have only given it 3 weeks. You don't know how hard the respected teachers had to work to win them around. Starting mid-year is a further hassle. So keep on being firm, but fair. Reward the good as often as you punish the bad. Break the lessons into bite-size chunks. When they stay on task, even if it's only for 3 minutes, stop them and praise them. Tell them how much better they are than (mythical) group in your "last school". Boost their egos. After a while they will forget that you are new and if you move on, they will tell you how good you were, how much they enjoyed the lessons etc and then start on the next mug.

I asked to watch some of the very experienced teachers at work. They didn't need to raise their voices, a raised eyebrow would do it. They adored one who was unbelievably sarcastic and aloof on the surface because they knew she cared. They knew that when they came to school with no breakfast because mum had spent the last £10 on drugs, she would make them some tea & toast and listen to them. However vile they had been, she still cared, and they truly respected her.

Ask for advice, watch more experienced teachers with your most troublesome classes. Think about splitting your lesson into much smaller chunks that you can then issue more praise for. Chin up and soldier on.

...it's all a front.
It's ego and bravado and sass and pops with a pin!

They're being nasty because they can and they want to break you.
"Your hair's a state"
"Thanks! When I want hair advice I can see you're the one to come to"

"Ugh! Wat is she wearing"
"at least my mummy didn't buy it for me"

"You talk funny"
"You may not like how I sound but at least what I am saying is intelligent"

Big smiles, sarcasm. LAUGH AT THEM.

DD is 14 and has several children as you describe in her class. She sees markedly worse behaviour from the boys towards young, female teachers. The boys are bigger and stronger and it's all about dominance. It just takes one to kick off and the rest join in.

No words of wisdom but maybe you need to scale back the biscuits and ramp up on being a psycho bitch teacher instead to get respect. There are good kids and good parents out there - if I ever heard one of my kids behaved like that in school I would go ballistic.

Kids are pricks, I think anyone wanting to be a teacher in this day and age should be knighted!
Rather you than me, good luck!