To believe theres an increase in cocklodgers and men have lost their pride in providing?

[Thickums]

Just musing this to myself today.

There seems to be a steady increase in cocklodgers in modern day life. Not just on MN but real life too.

Since women have gained better equality in the workplace, a lot of men seem to be taking a back seat or opting out completely in providing. More than happy to let their wives and girlfriends pay the bills or watch them go broke paying for everything whilst they spend their earnings or 'fun stuff' even if they earn more.
They don't cringe or feel ashamed watching their wife struggle. Its baffling.

Its not just that.. But also the pride in providing seems to be gone? Before there was better working opportunities in the work place for women, men were the sole providers for a lot of families. This used to come with some level of pride for men. Most of them WANTED to provide and for their children to be able to do activities like sports, brownies, scouts etc. They were happy to put food on the table. They would be proud their wife was able to get her hair done if she wished and keep the house nice, cupboards full etc.
Now however a lot of men seem to treat their women with almost contempt if they need help financially or don't earn as much?

The thing i find interesting is that women that work and earn more than their spouse dont seem to harbour this same attitude. They're more than happy to provide for their families. They'll buy a new rug for the living room, new charcter bedding for the kids and pay for their swimming lessons out of their own money. They'll also buy their partners nice birthdays and christmas presents.

So its not a two way thing it seems.


I think whats most intriguing for me is that 'wife work' and the 'mental load' still seems to fall majorly to women. So a lot of men havent caught up with that yet. But at the same time most of those very same men still want modern day 50/50 finances. So they dont believe the home is their 'domain' but yet they don't want to be the 'provider' either. How does that make sense?

When i look at previous generations in my family, although my grandfather didn't lift a finger at home in terms of cooking, cleaning and childcare (which is wrong), he was a very proud man and was proud of the fact he was provided a good lifestyle for his family. He was happy for my gran to manage the finances and the kids to go on days out. He was proud he could give his family a lovely house and buy a car.
He would work lots of overtime to provide.
It seems it was the same for most men of that generation.

I could be talking complete bollocks. But be interested to hear your thoughts as to why mens attitudes have changed in this regard? Why is their an incresse I'm cocklodgers and resentment in providing?

YABU = there is no rise in cocklodgers/financially stingy men.

YANBU = there is a rise in cocklodgers and an increase in men not wanting to provide.

[saraclara]

There may or may not be more cocklodgers. But there used to be a LOT of vadgelodgers in the past. And I'm not talking SAHMs of small children. Simply women after a meal ticket, and home all day with no kids.

There are shitty people of both sexes. As far as taking advantage of higher paid partners, I suspect the number are the same as they were, but the gender balance more even now.

[thepeopleversuswork]

Sewrainbow this is a good point actually: a lot of this did happen in Victorian poor households. There were households entirely supported by working women back then as well.

But there would still have been a major stigma attached to the idea of a man not being the breadwinner and depending on his wife, even if it was arbitrary and the bloke drank most of his income.

In some sections of society that stigma does seem to have disappeared.

[Beetle76]

@Watchagotcha yes! This is part of what I was trying to say.
I think women are, historically, more used to being made to feel redundant (or perhaps surplus to requirements) so are better practiced at making themselves useful.

[Lightlyfebreezed]

Anecdotally I agree with you. The older men I know have always been quite vocal about "a man's role" as being a provider, and have utter disgust for men they see as "workshy".

I think it probably varies throughout different classes/communities, the men I know who speak like this tend to be from very working class, industrial backgrounds, and I think sometimes when you don't have much else but your pride, you hold on to it very hard indeed.

I'm not saying the men I know are all lovely and caring, some of them are shits, but the idea that a man works, and works hard to provide, is something they all have in common.

From a working class background, I went to a typically MC school, and many of the boys I knew, while they were decent lads in their own way, very much expected to have an easy ride of it throughout their twenties--they assumed that their priority, once exams had been passed, was to enjoy themselves for as long as possible. They tended not to have part time jobs either, whereas I and the more WC kids certainly did.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, and again it's only my experience, but there does seem to be a culture of extended adolescence these days, and less judgement of men who frankly piss around acting like university students well into their 20s.

Basically there have always been bone idle men, but this is probably the best time for them in terms of living in a society that facilitates them

[BumpyNugget]

There are men who upon getting into a relationship, with a woman who works and earns roughly enough to provide a home, who will suddenly abdicate all adult responsibility, (financial, domestic and emotional) and take up a position akin to being her eldest son who has left school and become an actual lodger.

She does not need to be the higher earner, her wage just needs to be enough to pay the household's living costs.

He will go to work and offer her "room and board" weekly rent payments, again like her child who has left school and become an adult lodger.

If the boiler breaks or the telly flickers it's last, it's for her to fix and pay for because he has already "paid his rent".

This rent is also often derisory, bearing no relation to how much it costs to house and feed him.

Sometimes, he offers to pay her "rent" without ever actually handing over any money. Apparently the mere offer of rent is supposed to satisfy the greedy user money grabbing bitch.

If she gets pissy, he will take her out or buy a once in a blue moon something for her/house/kids so that he can claim he is an equal contributer. Preferably this will be as cheap as he can get away with.

He will spend every penny he earns beyond his "rent" on selfish pursuits (and/or his other girlfriend).

He will come home from work.
Switch on his tech gadget of choice and ask her where his dinner is.
By the way, where are his clean pants?
If she moans, he will reply "leave me alone, I've been at work all fucking day, slaving my tits off".
He will carry on with his leisure activities while not even noticing she is doing the housework.
He will ignore her all night then ask why she is not gagging to suck his dick and take it up the arse while he holds her throat when she falls into bed knackered at the end of the day.

There are shed loads of men like this who are posted about on this site and others every day.

I don't know if they are getting more numerous or just being talked about more and in more visible places. I am not saying that it's all men who are like this either before the men on here go off at me but you would have to be in total denial to think these types of men don't exist.

[iwunderwhy]

@toomanyleggings I LOVE what you wrote. Thank you !!

It's about education and there's not much out there teaching professional women this stuff. So they're left to fill in the gaps and they're doing so with outdated ideals.

I know a woman who's a senior head of a bank who has loaned 2 new BF's thousands. One claimed to be an entrepreneur. Then she wondered why they cooled off her. I know she'd do it again.

Ironically she never once offered a loan to a really good mutual woman friend despite her going through a shitty expensive divorce. Whenever they went to lunch she'd split the bill and then cry about the blokes she'd helped !! Magic !!!!

[2020bluegirl]

@Valanice1989


I see a lot of men who are happy to be "modern" when it suits them but are old-fashioned when it doesn't. Look at all the men who refuse to marry their girlfriends because the institution is outdated and patriarchal, yet strangely agree with the outdated, patriarchal tradition of babies being given their fathers' surname! Or men who live with women before marriage, but don't want their girlfriends to propose because they're so very traditional.

Yeah this. ^

Also, the men who want women to pay their way on dates, and pay for their own drinks and meal, because ya know 'EQUALITY....'

But they don't seem to extend this 'equality' to household chores, and childcare, and generally pulling their weight around the home.

[toomanyleggings]

@iwunderwhy it's true - girls and women are not educated on how to manage relationships with boys/ men. I know of a few great female life coaches who are doing great work in this area but most women don't know they're on the wrong track until it's too late. You can be as beautiful and intelligent as you like but if your boundaries are lacking and your picker is off you're in for a struggle

[user1497207191]

It's nothing new, there were "takers" back in the 80s when I was dating. The answer is to put physical attraction/lust to one side and concentrate on the practical side of a potential partner. Takers never change and the signs are there right from day one if you take away the blinkers and look at the whole person.

My first serious boyfriend was a "taker". We lasted 3 months. During that time, I was forever "subbing" him when we went out as he always had some kind of excuse (paid late, forgot his wallet, etc). But what really showed him up for what he was, was when he lost his job - up to then, he'd been living with his parents. When he lost his job, first thing he did was throw himself at the mercy of the DHSS and get a bed-sit claiming he'd had an argument and had been thrown out of his home. It was all a load of bollocks - he just knew how the play the system. A few weeks later when he got a new job, and that meant he had to pay rent for his bed-sit, he suddenly "made up" with his parents and went back home. That was the end for us, I ended it that day as soon as he told me. Showed him for what he really was - one of life's "takers".

[ShinyGiratina]

A great point made about male/ female chores a while back is that men have benefited much more from improvements in technology and outsourcing in traditional chores.

In "feminine" housework, outsourcing to a cleaner means that the house still has to be kept to a reasonable state of tidiness in order to be cleaned. A labour saving device such as a dishwasher still requires manual scraping of plates, loading and unloading.
In "male" chores, a garden can be outsourced completely to a gardener, or landscaped so it needs minimal maintainence, or electric mowers/ hedgecutters save a lot of manual grafting. Little car maintainence can be done at home.

50 years ago a Sunday spent at home with a woman cooking a roast dinner, and doing some chores has changed very little. Most of the "man" jobs are redundant, considerably easier and outsourced so he has gained much more Xbox time in comparison.

Meanwhile females have been educated and empowered to "have it all" education, a good job, a family... many males still have the culture of the job is enough, and aren't picking up their share of the "female" roles that aren't being done while she's working.

Each sex has motivated and lazy people, but modern society is much more easy and forgiving for the cocklodger to navigate his way through.

There are far fewer women prepared to have children, do nothing and walk away as though there were no consequences and repeat than there are men. Society is also much less forgiving of neglectful mothers than neglectful fathers.

There always have been feckless people, but it is simpler for them to get away with it and repeat the cycle these days.

[2020bluegirl]

@ShinyGiratina

Excellent post, and so true.

[RoomR0613]

But another significant segment of them seem to feel maybe subconsciously that women have changed the rules of engagement without consultation and therefore the domestic part of the equation is something they didn't sign up to

This resonates very strongly for me.

[BooFuckingHoo2]

YANBU I am a young, attractive high earner and there is no fucking way I’m going to let a man sponge off me - probably why I’m single! I see many of my friends shacked up with lazy men who let their careers take a back seat so they can hang out with their friends more whilst my lovely, successful friends pick up the financial and emotional slack.

[MarshaBradyo]

I haven’t noticed it. Might be or not though.

[PatellarTendonitis]

Yes, Boo, DD says a lot of guys seem to think they're doing you a favour by moving in and being exclusive and 'audition' women or pull the 'let's be casual' but expect full on relationship benefits. I warned her, too, off any guy who tries to dress up dodging his share in life as 'You're just better at it than I am/I'm a terrible cook/Can't cook/Can you show me?' or any other form of feigned incompetence. Or 'Your standards are too high/I just don't see mess the way you do'. Nope. Cop out alert! Dump! If you visit his home and it's an utter tip, or his car is, this is what he is like. You cannot change him and he's not worth it.

My OH has dyspraxia and severe dyslexia and is able to cook, clean the kitchen, do the laundry, clean bathrooms, etc. I have a friend who is blind who can manage this, too.

And there's no reason to 'train' a person to do this, you can figure it out alone or with YouTube and Google!

My dad was in the Army and something he said always stuck with me, 'If you see someone who treats their stuff, their home, their property, their personal body like swine, they will treat you the same way. Move on.'

[Thelnebriati]

I'm single and have basically had a series of relationships where he has at some point expressed surprise that I meant it when I said I don't need a man but would like a partner who participates in the relationship and home life.

I don't care if he isn't a good ''provider''. I'm not a passive bystander in my own life.

[BooFuckingHoo2]

DD says a lot of guys seem to think they're doing you a favour by moving in and being exclusive and 'audition' women or pull the 'let's be casual' but expect full on relationship benefits

@PatellarTendonitis exactly! It’s frankly shocking the amount of guys that don’t even want to go on a date these days, they just want to come over and have me cook?! I don’t think so somehow! The frightening thing is some of my friends happily indulge this behaviour so it seems to be the expectation nowadays

[Inliverpool1]

Come over and have you cook ?
I get asked as a 40 year old woman to come over and drop my knickers. Like some sort of unpaid escort. But some women must be going this. They wouldn’t ask if it didn’t work even 1/10 times

[cheaperbyfar8]

There seems to be a lot on here who have friends with little taste. What attracted them to these lazy men in the first place? Laziness tends to show very early in a persons character. Considering all these women you know are so successful, I’m assuming they have a decent brain. Why didn’t they use it when selecting a partner?

[morrisseysquif]

@toomanyleggings

We are limping along but I've got an exit plan....

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

I don't care. Other people's families/division of labour equals other people's business. If what you observe is true and other women are happy with that, fine. If they're not, it's up to them to take action to change it.

This is very like the WOHM -v- SAHM hamster-in-a-treadmill kind of discussion, isn't it? There's always someone waiting on the sidelines to take personal affront over the fact that others make different lifestyle decisions to theirs.

It baffles me.

[Graciebutterfly]

Because if you expect standards or have a list of wants you are high maintenance.

Because it's early days so that's Ok

Because even if you just want to date or have a causal thing you can't expect relationship behaviour from a man even if it turns into a relationship.

Women on here are constantly being told they have no boundaries or set the bar low and then they are to needy or requesting to much.

This advice from other women.

Men get away with shocking behaviour behaviour it's not always as clear cut to see until later or when your looking at a relationship from the outside

[PatellarTendonitis]

they just want to come over and have me cook?!

Oh, yes! And then they want the knickers dropped, too, liverpool. They say, 'How about we Netflix and chill?' is how it's couched, or 'How about you show off your cooking skills to me?' Not even coffee and a walk or museum and pot of tea after, they want to come over to her home as a stranger and have her cook for them and then suck their cocks. How she laughs.

[BlokeNumber9]

The term ``cocklodger'' is sexist crap.

[Inliverpool1]

PatellarTendonitis - she’s actually lucky they are prepared to come to her. I’ve been asked to get in my car and drive through the tunnel a good 30 for the honour