To believe theres an increase in cocklodgers and men have lost their pride in providing?

[Thickums]

Just musing this to myself today.

There seems to be a steady increase in cocklodgers in modern day life. Not just on MN but real life too.

Since women have gained better equality in the workplace, a lot of men seem to be taking a back seat or opting out completely in providing. More than happy to let their wives and girlfriends pay the bills or watch them go broke paying for everything whilst they spend their earnings or 'fun stuff' even if they earn more.
They don't cringe or feel ashamed watching their wife struggle. Its baffling.

Its not just that.. But also the pride in providing seems to be gone? Before there was better working opportunities in the work place for women, men were the sole providers for a lot of families. This used to come with some level of pride for men. Most of them WANTED to provide and for their children to be able to do activities like sports, brownies, scouts etc. They were happy to put food on the table. They would be proud their wife was able to get her hair done if she wished and keep the house nice, cupboards full etc.
Now however a lot of men seem to treat their women with almost contempt if they need help financially or don't earn as much?

The thing i find interesting is that women that work and earn more than their spouse dont seem to harbour this same attitude. They're more than happy to provide for their families. They'll buy a new rug for the living room, new charcter bedding for the kids and pay for their swimming lessons out of their own money. They'll also buy their partners nice birthdays and christmas presents.

So its not a two way thing it seems.


I think whats most intriguing for me is that 'wife work' and the 'mental load' still seems to fall majorly to women. So a lot of men havent caught up with that yet. But at the same time most of those very same men still want modern day 50/50 finances. So they dont believe the home is their 'domain' but yet they don't want to be the 'provider' either. How does that make sense?

When i look at previous generations in my family, although my grandfather didn't lift a finger at home in terms of cooking, cleaning and childcare (which is wrong), he was a very proud man and was proud of the fact he was provided a good lifestyle for his family. He was happy for my gran to manage the finances and the kids to go on days out. He was proud he could give his family a lovely house and buy a car.
He would work lots of overtime to provide.
It seems it was the same for most men of that generation.

I could be talking complete bollocks. But be interested to hear your thoughts as to why mens attitudes have changed in this regard? Why is their an incresse I'm cocklodgers and resentment in providing?

YABU = there is no rise in cocklodgers/financially stingy men.

YANBU = there is a rise in cocklodgers and an increase in men not wanting to provide.

[XmasHollie]

Oh and when we split he wanted 15 grand from the house. The house he never put any deposit down on

[XmasHollie]

I bought the house I lived in with my ex as he had no credit ((secret gambler), I paid for all fixtures and fittings, new kitchen etc and the bills. He covered the mortgage. I paid for all my own maternity leave. Before going back to work the roof was leaking and he refused to pay 300 to get it fixed so muggings here did it. I think that's what ended it for me

[Daphnise]

I don't know where the OP gets this idea of "Providing" from, or the cosy vision of a housewife with tidy cupboards, gleaming pots and pans and warmed slippers for her husband after his exhausting day's work. It's all a bit Stepford Wives.

And if men getting away with no proper financial contribution is actually on the increase (and how would we know?) then there must be just as many women permitting, tolerating or encouraging it.

[LisaLee333]

@Moooooooo

Well, there was a thread yesterday about a man who earned three times what his wife did. Her car gave up, so he said he would LOAN (yes loan)! her the money for a new one WITH INTEREST!!

It seems there are many men on here and so presumably in real life these days, who see themselves as a separate entity when it comes to their family. The “my” money, “your” money” attitude. Some women interpret having “their” money in a marriage as “independence” but, ultimately, it’s invariably the woman’s earnings that take the hit once DC come along. Other women seem delighted to be given “allowances” - as if their DH is bestowing some great favour on his family. I personally think it’s all bollocks and some women are allowing men to have their cake and eat it.

All of this. ^

And I agree with you @Thickums and many others on here.

Also what fucks me right off is men who go on a date with a woman, (usually via the ghastly online dating,) and insist they split the bill/she pays for herself, 'because equality...'

I am not saying men should always pay, but the men who DO insist on it and claim 'it's because women are equal/want to be equal,' never insist on equality when it comes to childcare, housework, general family chores, and general drudgery. Nope, that be wimmins work!

I used to know a man who said (when I knew him for 3 or 4 years in the mid noughties,) 'women want equality, so they can 'take a punch.' Yep, this cunt really said that. Born in 1972 he was, so not someone who was brought up in fucking Victorian times.

I also know a man RIGHT NOW, who is 53, and has tried every trick in the book to finish work for good, for the last 7-8 years. (Since he was around 45/46.) Always ill, off sick half the time, a different ailment every other week, looking for ways to retire early, and has cut his hours from his cushy job from 32, to 28 to 24 a week, in the last 10 years. And even NOW, he moans he is 'constantly knackered.' His job is a doddle, and cushy, and a monkey could do it, with his hands tied behind his back, and his eyes closed!

His wife earns more, and he doesn't give a shit. She works 10 more hours a week than him, and she still does 90% of the household chores.

There are 3 or 4 other men I know who are pretty much the same. A couple of them are only 45 to 50, and haven't worked in 12-15 years, and have spent half their working life on DLA, ESA, PIP, jobseekers allowance etc. Because of various 'ailments.' Total fucking layabouts. Many people are deserving of being on these benefits and can't get them, and these A-holes say and do the right thing, and stay on the benefits indefinitely.

My dad, and his 4 brothers, (born 1930s and 1940s,) all worked in mines and foundries, (and so did their father and uncles,) and they worked 44 to 48 hours a week, (in a HARD MANUAL JOB,) had only Christmas day and Boxing day off at Christmas, and had only around 10 days off (holiday,) during the year. They were proud, hardworking men, who provided for their families, and were glad to do so.

Many men (as has been said on here,) born post mid 1960s, are lazy, workshy, layabouts, who don't want to work, and are more than happy for their wife to work more, earn more, and pay for more, but STILL expect the wife to be the fucking chief cook and bottle washer.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

Yeah, there were some men who kept all the money to themselves, and kept their women in penury, but some did not. And IMO, the way men behave now is worse! Letting their wife work more hours, and earn more, and pay for more, but also letting her do everything in the house/all the housework/drudgery/grunt work.

And don't pretend it doesn't happen, (or be coming out with the predictable mumsnet line 'you clearly know the wrong type of men LisaLee,) because it happens a LOT.. So don't pretend it doesn't.

[WhatKatyDidNxt]

YANBU it’s definitely a thing and has got worse. I only knew one cocklodger as a child (my mums friends husband and even she’s binned him off). I know of loads as an adult! Not sure why women put up with it! My exh was keen on me doing everything round the house and paying more than my 50/50 share, despite him earning a lot more than me. He is now my ex. Not sure why women put up with it to be honest, my partner and l do an even split of household chores and paying for stuff. Both of us are happy with it and it’s fair. Not that difficult really

[BlokeNumber9]

The term cocklodger is sexist.

[PrincessPain]

🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️🧟

[Leaannb]

YABU....You seem to forget that many men of yoir grandfather's generations and generations before and after were extremely financially abusive

[GreenPoint]

.

[BeyondReasonablyDoubtsLots]

Anyway, if you think I'm biased about describing my own situation - that only goes to prove my point really...

[CatalogueUniverse]

Totally unnecessary TomPinch.

Unless my ex has made up a medical condition it’s not him but otherwise...

[BeyondReasonablyDoubtsLots]

Bit of a presumptive comment, given you know nothing about me or my exH

[TomPinch]

Yeah, I'm sure my exH would say the same

In which case, perhaps you are overthinking a bit.

[stouffer]

@Graphista I don’t have any male friends who behave like that because I weeded them out a long time ago. As to relatives, why do you think I have such a fascistic view of men who don’t pull their weight? I don’t have much time for people who conform to, or for that matter place stock in, negative gender stereotypes. That counts for both male and female btw.

[AnArrestableOffence]

I think there's less expectation for a man to marry and start a family (partly because of the economic strides that women have made).

I think a lot of men, in that situation, are following their desire and just deciding to not shoulder the burden. Most people don't enter into a relationship asking about attitudes to marriage and kids, so that's what you get.

[Inliverpool1]

lottiegarbanzo - I’d suggest a Dr - they tend to be pretty no nonsense types

[BeyondReasonablyDoubtsLots]

I know a man like this. He has a medical condition that makes him somewhat vulnerable.

His ex-DW in her frustration at him has squashed any likelihood of him being a good father by her verbal attacks on him (in front of the children etc) for not meeting her expectations. He's down on the ground but she continues kicking. It's a total shitstorm. The reasons for her frustrations are clear enough, but she's sabotaged what little chance she had of getting more out of him.

Yeah, I'm sure my exH would say the same 🙄

[lottiegarbanzo]

What profession BuddhaAtSea ? You sound like an engineer or a soldier (but wouldn't be doing a specialist uni course for the latter)?

[CatalogueUniverse]

GrumpyHoonMain- your poor aunt. That’s exactly the sort of man who would now add in not working and removing earnings from his partner to their abuse.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

In the old days women were blamed if their husbands squandered their money so it was kept hidden - my aunt never received a penny from her ex while they were married and had to rely on the charity of family. My dad regularly gave her money for sanitary products even - and she would reuse them or rip towels in half to make them last longer. Pretty sure dickheads like that still exist but the difference now is there’s no stigma against women working

[BuddhaAtSea]

I remember one of my uni lecturers at the beginning of the course, many years ago. She said: you are entering a profession that will see a large percentage of you divorced within years of qualifying. I was married at the time. Didn’t quite get what she meant, but I do now. And she was right.
Basically, my profession allows me to be financially independent. It also gives me a very clear idea what learnt helplessness is. I can foresee and subsequently manage unimaginable crises, all by myself. But most of all, it taught me what team work really means.
Translated into my personal life, the skills I learnt on the job allowed me to stand up and not put up with shit, because I can see, day in and day out, that life is short.

It all boils down to respect. I need to be respected and to respect.

I don’t mind earning more, but not by much. I’ve just come out of a relationship with a very rich guy, I now know that him earning masses more is not for me either.
I like having a cleaner, a washing machine, a dishwasher. And a man who doesn’t insult my intelligence by implying the dishes and clothes dumped ‘in the area’ are not going through the osmosis process, neither does a fairy descend and sorts it all out. Nice things need to be reciprocated. Like waiting with a cooked meal after work, that kind of thing. We both do wife work because this is life.

I like being in a relationship, but I don’t need to be in one. Nobody need to ‘complete’ me, I am quite whole.
I don’t need a man who can do DIY for me, I need one who can do it with me. Because doing stuff together is fun, that’s what I’m after.

[Pumpkinspicewhatever]

*i should say, unlike some PPs on this thread who are sounding like hand maidens :/

[Pumpkinspicewhatever]

I do agree with this. There’s no way dh does the same amount as me round the house... I have occasionally made lists to show him the disparity as he seems to think cooking and washing up (he does do these reliably basically every day as well as a bit of DIY) is equal to laundry/tidying/hoovering/life admin/making the home nice with new things etc/doing the lions share of dd stuff. I sometimes do get resentful and we talk about it. However he’s not mean with money, he earns more and generally pays for more stuff and doesn’t expect me to match his contribution.
Op I don’t think YAB completely U

[CatalogueUniverse]

I should point out that i think it’s a logical conclusion for men to have become disaffected and angry.

I don’t think women should be responsible for fixing it.

[Reginabambina]

In general I think you’re off the mark but women’s equality in the workplace has given feckless and abusivr men an excuse. You see it all the time on mn where a woman has no money to spend on herself while her husband is having hundred pound lunches because her high earning DH insists that she pays half of everything.