To believe theres an increase in cocklodgers and men have lost their pride in providing?

[Thickums]

Just musing this to myself today.

There seems to be a steady increase in cocklodgers in modern day life. Not just on MN but real life too.

Since women have gained better equality in the workplace, a lot of men seem to be taking a back seat or opting out completely in providing. More than happy to let their wives and girlfriends pay the bills or watch them go broke paying for everything whilst they spend their earnings or 'fun stuff' even if they earn more.
They don't cringe or feel ashamed watching their wife struggle. Its baffling.

Its not just that.. But also the pride in providing seems to be gone? Before there was better working opportunities in the work place for women, men were the sole providers for a lot of families. This used to come with some level of pride for men. Most of them WANTED to provide and for their children to be able to do activities like sports, brownies, scouts etc. They were happy to put food on the table. They would be proud their wife was able to get her hair done if she wished and keep the house nice, cupboards full etc.
Now however a lot of men seem to treat their women with almost contempt if they need help financially or don't earn as much?

The thing i find interesting is that women that work and earn more than their spouse dont seem to harbour this same attitude. They're more than happy to provide for their families. They'll buy a new rug for the living room, new charcter bedding for the kids and pay for their swimming lessons out of their own money. They'll also buy their partners nice birthdays and christmas presents.

So its not a two way thing it seems.


I think whats most intriguing for me is that 'wife work' and the 'mental load' still seems to fall majorly to women. So a lot of men havent caught up with that yet. But at the same time most of those very same men still want modern day 50/50 finances. So they dont believe the home is their 'domain' but yet they don't want to be the 'provider' either. How does that make sense?

When i look at previous generations in my family, although my grandfather didn't lift a finger at home in terms of cooking, cleaning and childcare (which is wrong), he was a very proud man and was proud of the fact he was provided a good lifestyle for his family. He was happy for my gran to manage the finances and the kids to go on days out. He was proud he could give his family a lovely house and buy a car.
He would work lots of overtime to provide.
It seems it was the same for most men of that generation.

I could be talking complete bollocks. But be interested to hear your thoughts as to why mens attitudes have changed in this regard? Why is their an incresse I'm cocklodgers and resentment in providing?

YABU = there is no rise in cocklodgers/financially stingy men.

YANBU = there is a rise in cocklodgers and an increase in men not wanting to provide.

[TotHappy]

Agree with above post definitely. But I do think that men of July own generation (30s) are a bit neither/nor in terms of earning and house/life work, my own husband included, compared to my/his parents. I suspect there is a kind of crisis of masculinity. My own husband can be a bit chippy in a men's rights kind of way which makes me deeply uncomfortable. I suspect that men of my own generation feel insecure in their privilege i.e. the male entitlement that they saw growing up is being gradually chipped away, BUT because they did see it growing up they feel that they ought to have it, and in many ways allowances are still made for them and so they end up stuck in a sort of aggrieved mindset where they are always hard done by - work hard, supposed to provide, supposed to parent, no time to themselves, blah blah blah. It's not what their dads had to do so it feels like s terrible burden - but also this is probably partially because it IS more of a burden. My father and father in law didn't have to work as hard as my husband does for the same money/career security - no way. And they're now both retired early on good pensions. I, on the other hand, have it a lot easier than my mother as a sahm and housewife - more support, more convenient shortcuts and amenities etc.

[user1493413286]

I think the bigger problem is that men aren’t stepping up to do more at home. I don’t want my DH to “provide” for me, I don’t want him to pay for me to have my hair done or feel proud that he’s doing that. I happily pay half but what I do want is to have him do half at home rather than this uneven situation that too many women are in where we work as much as men but do double the work at home.

[safariboot]

For men (and women) of a certain age, they spent years at university racking up loads of debt only to graduate straight into a recession with hardly any of the kind of jobs they'd been "sold" the degree on. Then they can barely afford to rent and can't even dream of buying a home.

With that kind of thing, it's not surprising that some have basically given up.

[Time40]

Is it because i don't talk about personal issues directly relating to myself?

I think it might be. The only time I've been accused of being a journalist, it was when I'd posted some general, impersonal musings and I asked what other people thought.

[PatellarTendonitis]

I think the bigger problem is that men aren’t stepping up to do more at home.

This, and women putting up with it because they're afraid to be single or see the hetero-nuclear set up as the only one of value.

These types of men also usually want strict 50/50 in terms of all finances but not in any other area of life. And sex on tap. Like a flatmate relationship with benefits.

DD has temporarily stopped dating due to far too many entitled wankers who also have porn-filled ideas of what sex is and who are frankly selfish and shit in bed due to porn use.

[Patroclus]

Ahhhhh theres that mythological past again. Men used to be able to do sensible hours for a good wage in a solid trade.

[Meruem]

I think you do have a point, even if your opinion is unpopular! But then I've done a lot of OLD and met my fair share of aspiring cock lodgers! I say "aspiring" as I end it immediately at the first whiff of sponging! I could write pages about the men I've met looking for someone to take care of them financially, emotionally and domestically. That's why I gave up in the end. I was looking for an equal but it was like finding a needle in a haystack! So, based on my experiences, it would be hypocritical of me to say you are being unreasonable.

[Cohle]

OP you sound like a goady, sexist, fucker.

[1forAll74]

I am always wondering. why so many switched on, and talented women,are married /partnered,to the types of men in question on here.

I expect that there would be a variety of reasons, but it's still quite worrying.

[Drabarni]

I'm just finding it all so aggressive, but do tend to agree with you except for the generalisation.
In each of your examples it's "some" not all.
I also don't think some of your examples are new.
Cocklodgers have always existed, they used to be called lazy arses. Ne'r do well

[lottiegarbanzo]

There is a reason why child benefit has always been paid to the mother as default. That reason is male selfishness. That is not recent.

[karencantobe]

Yes, because although there were lazy men in the past, they would have been embarrassed that a woman was financially providing for them all.

[TheBusDriver]

Cocklodgers? What about all the SAHMs who want to live the life of luxury?

[AsleepAllDay]

My dad is retired and still believes that him having a career and my SAHM didn't means that he was entitled to opt out of the every day drudgery of looking after the house and child rearing.

My sister has married someone like that, funnily enough. But she still works, takes care of the kids, the house, dinner and wakes up in the night with her baby

So I don't think it was 'pride' so much as being a 'provider' let men put everything into their careers at the expense of their families. Now that a one income household is less realistic and more women are working in their own right, the obvious inequality is showing itself

Men who take women for granted, or prefer to be supported, can be found at all times and anywhere

[Patroclus]

Do we ave a name for all those who spend their days doing MLMs? or because they're generally women are they all saints doing 30 hours a day 'admin'?

[TigerOnATrain]

@Thickums You need to get a better man in your life. And better men around you in general.

As you were..............

[TigerOnATrain]

As a pp said, there are no more lazy freeloading men, than there are lazy, freeloading women.

[TigerOnATrain]

@Patroclus

Ahhhhh there's that mythological past again. Men used to be able to do sensible hours for a good wage in a solid trade.

Nope, not mythical. That is how it used to be.

[DearHappy]

100% agree. I’ve noticed it over the last ten years or so. I know far more unemployed men than women.

I don’t live in MN world though as I can’t think of a single sahm in real life. Everyone I know went back to work after children.

[2020bluegirl]

@Thickums Journo or uni/college project?

[BirthdayCakes]

In some ways I wish my marriage was more like my parents in terms of division of labour.

My DM went back to university when I was around 13 but before then she stayed at home to look after us and the home. My DF worked fulltime but all his earnings went to DM - because she managed the house.

DF did most of the repair/decorating/DIY stuff including building sheds and a swimming pool, car maintenance, landscaping etc; DM did all the cleaning/cooking/making the house lovely..

Outside of general day to day house stuff they discussed things they were going to spend their money on and agreed together..

With DH and I we have a joint account for bills and seperate accounts each .. There isn't really a sense that we're in it together - I suppose it's good that we don't have to rely on each other but it doesn't build a closeness..

I do most of the things my DM did - around a 4 day a week job. DH - I'm sad to say - isn't very handy when it comes to DIY but is also uninterested in using 'his' money to fund any house maintenance and improvement - so it often falls to me (from my bank account), building a teeny bit of resentment.

I know that traditional roles aren't the answer but genuine partnership is something that could do with coming back. There seems to be a selfish attitude even within families.

[thepeopleversuswork]

AsleepAllDay I think you're right - up to a point. I think the "provider" tag was partly designed to signify that that was the extent of the man's job and excuse him from domestic drudgery.

At the same time that did seem to bring with it a recognition that a man couldn't duck this part of his responsibility -- probably with a large helping of social pressure not to do so.

Some men respond to the fact that their wives are actively competing for these roles and fulfilling them with a recognition that they need to step up on the domestic front.

But another significant segment of them seem to feel maybe subconsciously that women have changed the rules of engagement without consultation and therefore the domestic part of the equation is something they didn't sign up to.

I think for another significant portion of them it just doesn't occur to them to think about who does the domestic stuff. They are so used to it just being done by their mums that they don't realise how much is involved.

My dad was very much like this: on paper he was very supportive of my mum's desire to go back to work (which she only partially achieved), but in practice there is no way in hell he would have sanctioned anything which in any way disrupted his domestic routine or his ability to opt out of the domestic heavy lifting.

[TigerOnATrain]

@DearHappy

I don’t live in MN world though as I can’t think of a single sahm in real life. Everyone I know went back to work after children.

PMSL

[karencantobe]

It is rubbish that there are lots of freeloading women. Women are largely looking after kids and doing the cleaning and cooking. The exception are so called "trophy wifes". Old bloke gets a young beautiful women basically by providing a well off lifestyle.

[BigOldOakTree]

So many women fall in to the cocklodger category but are called SAHM and applauded on here!