To believe theres an increase in cocklodgers and men have lost their pride in providing?

[Thickums]

Just musing this to myself today.

There seems to be a steady increase in cocklodgers in modern day life. Not just on MN but real life too.

Since women have gained better equality in the workplace, a lot of men seem to be taking a back seat or opting out completely in providing. More than happy to let their wives and girlfriends pay the bills or watch them go broke paying for everything whilst they spend their earnings or 'fun stuff' even if they earn more.
They don't cringe or feel ashamed watching their wife struggle. Its baffling.

Its not just that.. But also the pride in providing seems to be gone? Before there was better working opportunities in the work place for women, men were the sole providers for a lot of families. This used to come with some level of pride for men. Most of them WANTED to provide and for their children to be able to do activities like sports, brownies, scouts etc. They were happy to put food on the table. They would be proud their wife was able to get her hair done if she wished and keep the house nice, cupboards full etc.
Now however a lot of men seem to treat their women with almost contempt if they need help financially or don't earn as much?

The thing i find interesting is that women that work and earn more than their spouse dont seem to harbour this same attitude. They're more than happy to provide for their families. They'll buy a new rug for the living room, new charcter bedding for the kids and pay for their swimming lessons out of their own money. They'll also buy their partners nice birthdays and christmas presents.

So its not a two way thing it seems.


I think whats most intriguing for me is that 'wife work' and the 'mental load' still seems to fall majorly to women. So a lot of men havent caught up with that yet. But at the same time most of those very same men still want modern day 50/50 finances. So they dont believe the home is their 'domain' but yet they don't want to be the 'provider' either. How does that make sense?

When i look at previous generations in my family, although my grandfather didn't lift a finger at home in terms of cooking, cleaning and childcare (which is wrong), he was a very proud man and was proud of the fact he was provided a good lifestyle for his family. He was happy for my gran to manage the finances and the kids to go on days out. He was proud he could give his family a lovely house and buy a car.
He would work lots of overtime to provide.
It seems it was the same for most men of that generation.

I could be talking complete bollocks. But be interested to hear your thoughts as to why mens attitudes have changed in this regard? Why is their an incresse I'm cocklodgers and resentment in providing?

YABU = there is no rise in cocklodgers/financially stingy men.

YANBU = there is a rise in cocklodgers and an increase in men not wanting to provide.

[toomanyleggings]

I agree. Women have striven for equality and all they've done is given themselves more work to do. Things started to degenerate after the war when there was a lack of healthy, marriageable men, women got used to working and competition for husbands was fierce. Men had too much choice and started to get lazy. Then you have the introduction of the pill which actually contributed to the crap situation we find ourselves in. Women supposedly found sexual freedom but actually it just meant men get free, easy sex with no commitment. Women's worth in the eyes of men plummeted so they feel like they have to do more to actually get a man. Sex too soon, paying on dates, travelling to men, financially supporting them, washing their socks, bearing them children... pick me, pick me, pick me

[TigerOnATrain]

@karencantobe


It is rubbish that there are lots of freeloading women. Women are largely looking after kids and doing the cleaning and cooking. The exception are so called "trophy wifes". Old bloke gets a young beautiful women basically by providing a well off lifestyle.

I never said there were LOTS of freeloading women, so don't make shit up.

I said there are no more freeloading MEN than there are freeloading WOMEN.

Also, don't kid yourself that ALL SAHMs are hard-done-by domestic slaves, because they're not.

[amijustparanoidorjuststoned]

What the bloody hell is a "cocklodger"? You been on the gin OP?

[Dollywilde]

I agree with @thepeopleversuswork and @tothappy.

My dad worked and earned a six figure salary, mum stayed at home.

DH and I earn exactly the same and pull in the same amount as my dad did (it buys us a lot less these days but that's property prices for you...)

I wouldn't change the advancement of women for anything, but I can acknowledge that allocating one parent to working and bringing in the income and allocating another to running the house and children is probably a more efficient division of labour.

Friends of ours found out unexpectedly that they were having twins, as it is one of them earns 80% of the household income and the other 20%. So it was a pretty easy decision as to whose career would take a back seat.

If that had happened to us on 50%/50% we'd have been much more shafted, because neither one of us earns the lion's share and therefore our lifestyle would have to change enormously.

[thepeopleversuswork]

toomanyleggings as opposed to what you seem to be suggesting, which is that women play by "the rules", ensnare a man into marriage (by withholding sex or whatever 1950s device you seem to be advocating), then become his domestic slave without having any actual income of her own.

Working women and those with control over their own sexual destiny may not have found the perfect solution but at least they and their children won't be left destitute when their hubby runs off with his younger secretary.

[morrisseysquif]

I don't see that many men walking home from the local gym carrying a yoga mat.

[Dollywilde]

@Thickums

You must be new here...

[Dollywilde]

Sorry @thickums, I'd meant to tag @amijustparanoidorjuststoned - changed as I posted somehow...

[toomanyleggings]

I never said you can't have an income. You always have to have a back up financial plan. I know I do but I've never financially supported a man and never would @thepeopleversuswork. It would be a turn off for me if a man expected such a thing

[zsazsajuju]

There’s definitely double standards when it comes to cocklodger v SAHM on MN. I provide for myself and family and I have pride in that. I wouldn’t like to be financially dependent on someone else.

There’s definitely still a strong “marry a rich man” cohort on MN though. Outdated but shows that lots of women (and presumably some men) are still like that.

[karencantobe]

OP I agree with you. But this thread will now just become - women do it too.

[Newmetoday]

Funny how women are never cocklodgers on here. I’ve seen a SAHD be accused of being one. A woman would never get the same

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

And looking for a bun fight by the look of it.

[Tfgjiknfr]

I think you are talking bollux, sorry.

Men should be ‘proud’ to support a woman anymore than a woman should be proud to support a man.

Perhaps a more interesting thing to discuss is why so many fewer men are going to University than women.

In 2017/18 there were 333,000 MORE women in higher education than men. INFO HERE. That a massive difference.

[Tfgjiknfr]

Men should be no more proud*

[Inliverpool1]

Especially amongst the low earning minimum wage group definitely.

[lorettalemon]

I'm convinced that cocklodging is more prevalent nowadays. I've had 2 and I've come across a lot of woman who've had a catalogue of them. It wasn't something I'd really even heard of happening to anyone I knew 10/20 years ago.

I think it's true that a lot of it has come about because there are more successful women with money to cocklodge with, but the thing that doesn't fit with that is that it happens in every strata of society-

examples I've come across ranging from a guy with no fixed abode who latched onto a woman living in a not very nice hmo room. A guy who refused to get a job who moved in on a girl who received benefits and lived in a pleasant council provided property. The most extreme example is a guy who married a girl who had a house worth millions so he could get a UK visa and a load of money out of her (he admitted it once he was caught cheating).

[TheBusDriver]

@BirthdayCakes I think thats how it was in many a household and it worked for the majority.

[Meruem]

The difference between cock lodger and SAHM should be clear to anyone! A cock lodger, by definition, does nothing around the house and has no children to take care of. They just sit around doing nothing! That's the big problem!

I have seen plenty of threads on here where a SAHM (with a working partner) is told by everyone that she should be doing the majority of chores. Nobody on this site thinks being a SAHM means getting a "free ride". The exception I've seen is where a woman has a newborn and is breastfeeding almost constantly and recovering from the birth. Again not a position a male would ever be in!

To try and compare the two is just being utterly ridiculous. The better comparison as a pp mentioned upthread would be a "trophy wife". And if one of those posted here trying to defend their lifestyle they'd be ripped apart!

[lorettalemon]

And there's a big difference between a stay at home dad/man who earns less than his partner and a cocklodger. It's not simply a question of an income disparity - a lot of it comes through in attitudes and taking the piss

[Sugarpea123]

Yanbu.

[toomanyleggings]

From a male blogger-
One of the worst things a woman can do is "help" a man get on his feet or elevate him when he has nothing of value to offer. What do I mean by that? Okay, example: If you meet a man who is 35-40 years old, no education, no skills, no trade, he's riding a bicycle because he doesn't own a automobile, working at a fast-food joint as a cook, and living with his healthy mom at the time you met him, he has nothing of value to offer a woman. Now, if you make the mistake that millions of women make when they allow their nurturing and motherly instincts to kick in, and try to "see the Kang in him" or take him in and help him get "his shi** together", it will not end well.

Deep down, all men want to pull themselves up, even when it look as if they're not capable of doing it. If you interrupt that process and artificially prop him up, he's going to hate you for it. Once he gets on his feet, he will more than likely leave you for another woman. Why? Because the other woman is meeting the "got my shit together dude" and not the "down on my luck dude". So he will be in a place of power and admiration with the new woman, whereas he knows the woman that helped him get straight, knows exactly who he is and how much she helped turn a tramp into a champ. Since he knows this, resentment will settle in and he will find another woman that doesn't know this secret about him.

The psychology of men and women function very differently, and this must be understood and respected. For instance, many women think that if they go the extra mile and help Pooky get on his feet by finding him a better paying job, moving him out his mama crib into her house, and giving him the keys to the 750LI, that Pooky will be grateful and show her undying attention, love and appreciation. It never goes that way because many women think men think like them, and that's where they go very wrong. The opposite is going to happen, Pooky is going to hate you for doing too much for him and turning him into boy status, and he's going to bounce by sabotaging the relationship or sleeping with a woman so you can find out.

Deep down, all men know they must earn their own keep even the ones who weren't raised by a father. That is why when they have no skills, they turn to crime in order to feel like a man and be able to take care of themselves. Men know that the bare minimum is that they're able to feed, clothe, put a roof over their heads and take care of themselves, so when a woman steps over the line and relieves him of his most basic manly duty, the man resents her for it because it reinforces the demons who have been telling him in his mind that he is nothing, that he is small, that he needs a woman to take care of him. Dudes in that cycle have been fighting those demons most of their lives and it's their best kept secret.

Helping a man is not finding him a job, moving him into your home from his mamas house, giving him your car keys, and taking the place of his over protective mother. That is the worst thing you can do and it will backfire. A man must earn his keep and earn his woman by standing on his skills and what he knows. A man must come to a woman with something to offer that the woman doesn't have, even PimPs understand and know this science, and it is the science of reciprocity. If a man comes to you with nothing, you will get nothing in the end.

Also, when a woman has to do everything for a man, she will lose respect for him and begin to look at him like he is her son. This sets up a dysfunctional relationship of sorts, borderline incest. A woman must stay out of the way of men who are either in transition or still trying to find themselves. You meet them on a bike, leave them on their bike, don't take any interest in them unless you want your bank account drained, your dog shot, your best friend sleeping with him, and your heart broken. Because in reality, you're not dealing with a man, you're actually dealing with a boy-child when they're in that situation at home with mama and working a dead-end job.

[iwunderwhy]

*@Thickums Ignore the rubbish 'journalist' allegation. If people suspect your post they can just ignore it and move along. THEY are too stupid to argue facts so they resort to intimidation and abuse which MN should be blocking *.

YOU ARE RIGHT it is the time of the cocklodger and we shouldn't let any gaslight us otherwise.

True they've always existed and society supported that; It wasn’t long ago when husbands could get away with not supporting the wife and kids. No court was ordering them to pay maintenance or put a roof over their kids head. They just left. If they beat you the police would laugh you out of the station - that was Britain in the 70's and 80's.

That changed because of the sacrifices of feminists AND government economists who argued tax payers shouldn't be picking up the bill for shiftless men.

Many of these men are really angry now that with 'equality' they don't get to feel automatically better then all women; they can’t financially abuse or beat them with impunity, women can get good jobs, the courts will force men to pay child support/ maintenance etc etc. In retaliation a bunch of them have said if I go work and we divorce she’ll only get half for the rest of her life so I’m not doing it. So they doss.

What surprises me, along with some other posters, is the genuinely talented and clever women who put up with it all for what I can see, of having a ‘man’ in the house. I get it I get the pressure working women face.

AND...If blokes took their full share of the mental /work load of the house I'd say it was a fair exchange, but women are still carrying the 'motherload' emotionally, and financial now AND dealing will Sulky Shiftless Simon too …well I don’t know how they do it. I would not.

For those men always monitoring women's spaces MN people screaming MN reverse sexism just look at the incel threads/ sites aimed at blokes and plain as day - women are B’s, don’t work, she’ll only get your money, let her earn more and then she’ll have to pay you. For some men cocklodging is revenge... and its time we were honest about it.

[Clickncollect]

No idea if @Thickums is a journo but she posted one of my fave stories ever on the ‘dumped by text’ thread recently!

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

I’ve never subscribed to the men are providers thing so I’d love to see that gone. Both sexes should be providing for themselves and any children they choose to have not just one of them.

Laziness and not working is not a quality I want in a partner and I’ve taught my children to look for an equal not a partner who expects to be provided for.