To believe theres an increase in cocklodgers and men have lost their pride in providing?

[Thickums]

Just musing this to myself today.

There seems to be a steady increase in cocklodgers in modern day life. Not just on MN but real life too.

Since women have gained better equality in the workplace, a lot of men seem to be taking a back seat or opting out completely in providing. More than happy to let their wives and girlfriends pay the bills or watch them go broke paying for everything whilst they spend their earnings or 'fun stuff' even if they earn more.
They don't cringe or feel ashamed watching their wife struggle. Its baffling.

Its not just that.. But also the pride in providing seems to be gone? Before there was better working opportunities in the work place for women, men were the sole providers for a lot of families. This used to come with some level of pride for men. Most of them WANTED to provide and for their children to be able to do activities like sports, brownies, scouts etc. They were happy to put food on the table. They would be proud their wife was able to get her hair done if she wished and keep the house nice, cupboards full etc.
Now however a lot of men seem to treat their women with almost contempt if they need help financially or don't earn as much?

The thing i find interesting is that women that work and earn more than their spouse dont seem to harbour this same attitude. They're more than happy to provide for their families. They'll buy a new rug for the living room, new charcter bedding for the kids and pay for their swimming lessons out of their own money. They'll also buy their partners nice birthdays and christmas presents.

So its not a two way thing it seems.


I think whats most intriguing for me is that 'wife work' and the 'mental load' still seems to fall majorly to women. So a lot of men havent caught up with that yet. But at the same time most of those very same men still want modern day 50/50 finances. So they dont believe the home is their 'domain' but yet they don't want to be the 'provider' either. How does that make sense?

When i look at previous generations in my family, although my grandfather didn't lift a finger at home in terms of cooking, cleaning and childcare (which is wrong), he was a very proud man and was proud of the fact he was provided a good lifestyle for his family. He was happy for my gran to manage the finances and the kids to go on days out. He was proud he could give his family a lovely house and buy a car.
He would work lots of overtime to provide.
It seems it was the same for most men of that generation.

I could be talking complete bollocks. But be interested to hear your thoughts as to why mens attitudes have changed in this regard? Why is their an incresse I'm cocklodgers and resentment in providing?

YABU = there is no rise in cocklodgers/financially stingy men.

YANBU = there is a rise in cocklodgers and an increase in men not wanting to provide.

[dayslikethese1]

I've read that it's really common for couples to revert to sexist roles once DC come along even in previously equal relationships which is interesting. We still have a ways to go I think on the equality front.

[Tumbleweed101]

Perhaps it's just that women are becoming more independent and earning more that men no longer have the same need to be a provider as they did when their wives weren't in the work place so much.

I think society is moving far quicker than some people are keeping up with. A large part of me would love for someone to be able to provide for me and my children so I could deal with the domestic stuff and not have to worry about finances (in the sense of earning). The reality is I have provide for myself and my children and do all the domestic stuff single handedly. I enjoy my job but it is tough going doing everything and worrying about everything all alone.

I think society has shifted too because of instead of a single earner being able to afford the basics it now takes two because women are also expected to be in the workplace with even tiny babies in the family. Even here on mumsnet where you'd expect people to understand how hard parenting and life with very young children can be they are advocating getting back to work asap.

[2020bluegirl]

@Inliverpool1

They just want to come over and have me cook.

@PatellarTendonitis

Oh, yes! And then they want the knickers dropped, too, liverpool. They say, 'How about we Netflix and chill?' is how it's couched, or 'How about you show off your cooking skills to me?' Not even coffee and a walk or museum and pot of tea after, they want to come over to her home as a stranger and have her cook for them and then suck their cocks.

Oh, how she laughs!

PMSL at this. Men have just turned into bigger pisstakers as they years have gone on.

@Meruem



I have totally given up on being with someone. What with them wanting someone to provide for their every need as well as being a porn star in bed. It’s all to much for very little reward.

I have cats now. Ok they do cost me money and don’t earn anything, little catlodgers that they are! But they give me lots of love and really don’t demand too much!

Catlodgers!

[2020bluegirl]

@Meruem

I don’t think we’ve made the gains that we like to think we have.

OK in the “old” days it wasn’t illegal to rape your wife. But back then men didn’t expect things like anal or choking as part of a “normal” sex life and didn’t accuse you of being “vanilla” if you didn’t want those things.

We argue that a woman being made up in a pretty dress to greet her husband is so “1950’s” and yet women are going to greater lengths than ever before to attract men. Lip fillers and fake boobs and asses and all the rest of it.

We won the right to work but are still expected to take care of all the wife work.

We were told that financially 50/50 is the right way to go - then you see women posting on here all the time that their partners still expect 50/50 when the woman’s on maternity and has no income. Or higher earners leaving their partners broke because of the 50/50 rule.

Some have been lucky enough to be with a man who’s moved with the times. Most men haven’t moved with the times, or if they do it's only to their own benefit.

Agree with this 100%. Excellent post! ^

@HelenaDove

Another poster formerbabe and myself have pointed out several times on the "who pays on dates" thread that just because a man insists on splitting the bill it doesnt mean he believes in equality.

Oh heck I agree!!! I would go so far as to say that it's not only likely that he doesn't believe in equality, but that he is also a tight-fisted git.

And I say this from experience, of myself, and people I know/have known...

A few posters have said 'I have never known a man like the men being described on here!!!' All I can say to that is you can't get out much, or you have just been very lucky if you have never known a SINGLE MAN who treats women in the manner that many posters on this thread describe.

[Boireannachlaidir]

Catlodgers

The way forward...

[HeIenaDove]

If looking after children is not work why are so many men reluctant to do it?

If looking after children is not work why are more women than ever...child free by choice?

[Cluckyandconfused]

I think what @toomanyleggings posted is unfortunately very true. A lot of men feel like their ego has been slighted if a woman helps them achieve something. To repay her kindness they abdicate responsibility for childcare and housework to make sure she’s put back in her place. Where children are involved they also rewrite the narrative to claim that they were forced into it, thus justifying their lack of participation in family life.

[TomPinch]

I know a man like this. He has a medical condition that makes him somewhat vulnerable.

His ex-DW in her frustration at him has squashed any likelihood of him being a good father by her verbal attacks on him (in front of the children etc) for not meeting her expectations. He's down on the ground but she continues kicking. It's a total shitstorm. The reasons for her frustrations are clear enough, but she's sabotaged what little chance she had of getting more out of him.

[Tfgjiknfr]

Cocklodgers can only exist if someone is willing to let them cocklodge. Why on earth do so many women enable them to behave like that. Does some women's eagerness to have a man outweigh their common-sense.

I've had a really good think about all the friends and family I know and I think the spread of cocklodgers/Vag-lodgers is evenly split between the sexes. I know as many lazy entitled women as I do men. It think the women get away with it more
as it's done under the guise of raising kids.

Men who have serious MH issues and don't work because of it are given very little sympathy on MN.

[BloodyGlasses]

I am a woman.
I earn 3X more than DH.
I was lucky to get a well paid job recently but up until then DH had worked full time and me part time to allow me be with the kids, my new job allowed him to work part time and be with the kids.
We view all money that we both earn as family money, there is no his or hers (except monetary Xmas / Bday gifts)
This is the happy workings of a happy and compromising family.
No 'cock lodging' what-so ever.
I am proud to be able to provide for my family. Am I not allowed to be proud of that fact since I am a woman?

[BloodyGlasses]

My dh says he feels very judged when he takes our youngest to a play centre or some similar outing in the middle of the week...
But would you judge the women all sat there with their kids?
This sexist attitude needs stamping out.

[thepeopleversuswork]

BloodyGlasses you’re absolutely right. What your DH thinks he is experiencing may or may not be in his head but there are enough men who feel like this.

This is the thorniest and most difficult bit of sexual equality: that idea a lot of men still seem to have that childcare and domestic work somehow downgrades their masculinity. It’s a much tougher nut to crack than getting used to there being lots of women in the workplace because it gets right to the heart of ideas of self esteem and status.

I have to say I think this narrative which we have seen here that says SAHM = leech is profoundly unhelpful to this broader project of helping men value domestic work.

Yes there are some very sensible reasons why it’s not a good idea to totally depend on anyone else financially and I don’t think being a career stay at home parent is ideal for the self esteem.

But if we want men to recognise the value of domestic work and childcare to a family we need to value it when women do it too.

[downlow]

I think it's an interesting topic.

Personally I think women have evolved (not sure of the word to use) a lot over the last few decades & I look at my 30 something female friends & they are attractive, healthy, funny, solvent & ambitious, they are catches! Many women now don't have to marry a man in order to have an income. I don't think men have evolved equally & some resent the fact women have more choice.

DH told me yesterday how a colleague was complaining about his wife's inability to cook or learn to cook. DHs response was does he cook, the answer was no. Never mind that DHs colleagues wife out-earns him.

One thing I know I have hypocritical views on is I'm completely accepting of the family set up where the man is a high earner & the wife doesn't work, has help etc even when the kids are in school. I wouldn't be happy to be married to a man if those roles were reversed. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances but in most cases I would want my husband to work if the kids were in school.

[Lanaa]

I agree. There are too many women that let them get away with it though. All of this going halves on first dates should be seen as massive red flags and an early warning of cock lodger tendencies, but the amount of women that are ok with it is astounding.

[downlow]

And I also question why so many women put up with crap. I know someone who's never left all 3 kids with the DH alone in 5 yrs. I know someone who cooks & prepares & labels her DHs food when she goes away. I know someone who has a shit sex life & is completely unsatisfied because her DH is not interested in pleasuring her. I know someone who works & does all the cleaning, her DH doesn't want to clean or pay for a cleaner. Wtf?

[strawberrysalsa]

Cocklodgers aren't a new phenomenon by any means, We have stories about my grandpa's grandpa...so we are talking mid to late 1800's (my Grandpa was born 1907). The family was all poor but he 'retired' early and worked 2 wives to death to keep him. He wore spats and bred Pomeranians.
According to the stories my grandpa told he was popular, apparently old ladies would tell him that his grandpa was 'a dapper little fellow'.

[Keenwaah]

SAHM are caringh for young kids. That is not dodging work at all.

Certainly wasn't very long ago last time we had a thread full of women sharing tips and tricks on how they use having kids and other excuses to avoid full time work...

[SummerPavillion]

There are too many women that let them get away with it

I can't decide whether this statement is more woman-hating or man-hating.

It's simultaneously blaming the victim, and assuming men's default is to treat their partners like crap.

You couldn't pay me enough to treat someone that badly.

And unfortunately I think it's a phenomenon that's going to increase exponentially - the more fathers who walk away with no consequences, the more boys learn that's "what men do".

[karencantobe]

@keenwaah That was women who preferred looking after their kids than working. Truth is if you are a good mother, then yes looking after your kids is more fun work than doing a shit minimum wage job with a shit boss. But it is still work.
If I see dads desperate to be SAHD and doing the cleaning, then that would be the equivalent. Instead we are talking about dads/men who do not work, do not do childcare or housework.

[karencantobe]

@BloodyGlasses That is not cock lodging. That so what DP and I do. At various times we have both worked more or less hours depending on our jobs, and the other has done more childcare and housework. We work as a team.

[downlow]

I think its really important that parents show a good dynamic in the home so that sons & daughters have good role models & levels of expectations.

[Tfgjiknfr]

SummerPavillion


"There are too many women that let them get away with it "

I can't decide whether this statement is more woman-hating or man-hating

So how would you phrase it? There ARE too many women who put up with lazy entitled me or do you disagree??? I bet there are also too many men out there who put up with lazy entitled women.

[PanicAndRun]

But it's not just about not working or avoiding work is it?

Cocklodgers don't look after kids or do housework,cooking etc. Most SAHM do.

You're comparing apples and pears.

[UYScuti]

A cocklodger by definition is a man who behaves as if if his cock pays the rent, he feels entitled to live in a woman's household without contributing anything except the use of his cock, because he has sex with her she should in return earn all the money do all the domestic work
The female equivalent would be a woman who provides sex for a man in return for living rent free and not having to do any domestic work

[Bananalanacake]

Downlow: those first 2 examples sound more like martyrdom to me. Not left her DC alone with her dp in 5 years!! What on earth.