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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dividing the mental load?

205 replies

Dividingthementalload · 04/01/2020 12:38

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

OP posts:
CosmoK · 06/01/2020 11:28

- no one goes Out before 730-8pm anyway when they have kids do they?

Of course they do.

Dividingthementalload · 06/01/2020 11:36

Thank you! Yeah the the kind thing it’s probably the wrong word. He hasn’t got a malicious bone in his body (I have, and have to curb it). He is gentle and reasonable. He doesn’t shout and isn’t quick to anger. He is the calm yin to my mayhemic yang. All these things are vital for me in a relationship. I’ve never had a partner so reasonable or understanding of my emotional vicissitudes (even before early menopause slapped me round the chops). He is incredibly thoughtless though and a long time single (well as a serial monogamist until they got serious and he ran away) and my natural instinct to have/do it all has meant he genuinely doesn’t see what goes on behind the scenes.

If he were a total twat in between the 6 monthly rows I’d be long gone. There are many reasons why he is perfect for me, and that informs my long term putting up with him being a lazy selfish bastard.

I will write some lists for meals etc at weekends. He has agreee to do more cooking and i ordered the hello fresh stuff someone wise suggested which is a great idea. I can do kids tea (try as I might to do one meal neither of us wants (me) or is able (him) to eat at 530 with the kids during the week and it suits us to do two shifts. He can do ours later.

So yes; it feels like change is afoot.

OP posts:
Dividingthementalload · 06/01/2020 11:39

Cosmok- ok, fair point, no one in my 5/6 different groups of friends then. Everyone finishes work at 6 ish, comes home sees kids gets ready goes out. Or if part time/sahm they sort after school stuff feed kids sort baths etc then get ready and go out. By then it’s at least 730. Usually we meet 8-830, in all those different groups. No issue with that.

OP posts:
Quicklittlenamechange · 06/01/2020 11:48

OP you read him as calm and reasonable.
To me it reads that he just doesnt care.

He is not in any way responsive to your needs -thats the opposite of caring.

CosmoK · 06/01/2020 12:06

Cosmok- ok, fair point, no one in my 5/6 different groups of friends then. Everyone finishes work at 6 ish, comes home sees kids gets ready goes out. Or if part time/sahm they sort after school stuff feed kids sort baths etc then get ready and go out. By then it’s at least 730. Usually we meet 8-830, in all those different groups. No issue with that.

It seems to me that in your group of friends the women are responsible for the vast majority of childcare and that needs to be sorted before they can go out......that in no way represents how my friends organise their lives. For example, I met a friend yesterday for drinks. We met at 4pm....i was 'off duty' from about 2 so i could get ready in peace and I left the house without worrying about what DS would eat, whether he would be bathed and put to bed because I just knew it would all be fine.

While I have a husband in the house I will not organise my social life around bath/bedtime and neither do my friends.

Dividingthementalload · 06/01/2020 12:13

CosmoK - as I was typing that I realised that exact same thing myself. I’m clearly not the only one shouldering that mental (and physical) load.

OP posts:
CosmoK · 06/01/2020 12:34

CosmoK - as I was typing that I realised that exact same thing myself. I’m clearly not the only one shouldering that mental (and physical) load

I really hope you start to see some changes...it may spur your friends to do the same. One of the reasons I left my first marriage was because I knew I would end up doing everything if we had kids .....he expected it from me before we had kids so i knew it would get worse. I could also see how others in our friendship group and family shared ( or didn't ) caring and household responsibilities and it was a wake up call! When I left my friends husbands did start to treat their wives better as they were worried they'd leave too. Unfortunately it didn't last and I hardly see those people anymore and it's mainly because their husbands stop them seeing me....i'm too feminist apparently!

timeisnotaline · 06/01/2020 12:36

Totally agree on calling it the mental load and it’s common discussion amongst my friends. I think you need to harness this rage op and keep the pressure up to see results after all this time though. And don’t say things like ‘trying is enough’, because it’s not true. What’s more honest is ‘you’ve been a parent for x years and a husband for y years so saying I’m trying after all this time doesnt cut the fucking mustard. Try harder. TreAt it like a huge work kpi as it is bigger than those - none of those mean you’ll be lonely for 20 years of retired life where the kids call on your birthday and Christmas and I’m finding someone who can buy me one birthday present every 10 years and knows how to make an egg sandwich without fucking asking me.

My husband told me he was trying his best after I pointed out he’s cooked dinner once in 6 weeks. He’s never said it again after I said I had thought he was a competent adult and if that really was his best he was either seriously ill or this marriage was a huge mistake. It’s been a long journey since then but still improving...

MaggieFS · 06/01/2020 13:00

OP, I understand 100% what you mean and it's not fair. My situation is similar. I think from what you've said, giving DH tasks in their entirety is a good idea, even if there will be some bumps along the way as he adjusts!

I had this chat very recently with a friend and she was raving about a book called Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. She's not big into self help type stuff so I was surprised she was such a fan. I just haven't got round to reading it yet - might be worth a look?

Dividingthementalload · 06/01/2020 13:25

Timeisnotaline: I laughed out loud at your post! I have spent the last ten years saying ‘trying means nothing if there is no practical improvement’ - his constant refrain is ‘i’m trying my best’. It drives me utterly wild because its such an utter cop out. this argument was the first time he hasn’t said it, primarily because I said we were now in do or die divorce territory and he started to sit up and take notice. Which means before it was just white noise.

It does make me angry that it’s taken so long and the threat of divorce for him to listen. How much thinking does it take to think: it’s my wife’s birthday, lll make a restaurant reservation and buy some flowers or- shudder- think of something she’d actually like. One of my comments was : when you are around, if you put your paper down/stop going out into the garden every 5 minutes/turn radio 5 live off and actually look at your family, listen to us, ask about us, eat with us, etc you’ll learn what we want as a present, who wears what, what interests us, what upsets us, what music we like etc etc. And the kids might see you as an actual parent instead of fun time dad who Is great fun but who you run past when You’re tired or sad or hurt in favour of their sole parent.

Fair Play has been mentioned more than once! I’m going to order it, thank you.

OP posts:
orchidsarebeautiful · 06/01/2020 15:29

It sounds as though you've had lots of good advice on here and you are sorting things out.

I just wanted to say my sister has a part time cleaner/housekeeper.

Her husband is a high earner and as a result is not present to help with day to day running of a home. His working day door to door is often 14 hours.

My sister has always raised her children as she didn't want to delegate this, but had help with all the little chores to keep things easily running.

Her part time housekeeper does two to three short days or mornings.

Her duties include, cleaning the bathrooms, general housework, hoovering floors, wiping surfaces, loading and emptying the dishwasher, stripping and remaking beds, doing laundry, ironing and putting away clothes and bedding.
She cleans out the fridge just before the grocery delivery arrives and checks it all and puts it away. Her days are timed with bin day and recycling and she does this too.

She often helps with decorating for Christmas and will put decorations away after new year.

In past preschool years she'd mind the children too but worked extra mornings to cover this.

She'll water plants, tend animals and generally do whatever is needed as an extra pair of hands.

It took quite a few advertisements to find her, she is so good. Worth the time to find her.

Other things that helped were getting automatic repeat orders on amazon for cleaning items, toilet rolls, dish washer tablets, bin bags and I think cat food. Anything you can think of really. Ever little automated thing is one less thing to remember.

She has a gardener on set days a month and window cleaners that come regularly and a dog walker.

I'd set up a service with the local garage so they call you when your car is due for service or MOT. Get them to drop off a courtesy car and pick up your car, then drop it off afterwards. Our local independent garage offers this service.

I think the key is to choose which bits you want to do and outsource all others.

Good luck, I know it's hard with a husband who works silly hours. Spend the extra income on making your life easier.

This will be much easier that trying to make large changes to your husbands behaviour. I would be gradually delegating a regular task(s) to get him to help. One that involved me leaving the house for a period of time to grab a facial or a coffee with friends, so he couldn't ask me to direct his input.

I have a fairly equal domesticated husband but I still have to remind him that unloading the dishwasher or putting the children's clothes away or putting the bins out, is a household task. It's not done to help me, it's done for the house and all of us are responsible for the house.
I think if my husband had left the instructions for a knife sharpener out for me to read I too might have lost my calm.

Dividingthementalload · 06/01/2020 16:05

Thank you orchid, that’s a lovely post. From your description, our cleaner does most of this bar food. She is lovely and proactive too so noticew what needs doing. Having booked her in today for an extra two hours (I’ve known her 10+ years and we talk openly over a coffee while she’s here, so I told her why) and of her own accord she worked out a schedule for bed changing, washing, ironing and other jobs over the two days she’s here. I was so grateful I almost cried. This last two days has been emotionally exhausting so it was so nice to have someone sensibkr come in and take charge so I could just get on witH work.

He is trying. I am responding calmly to silly queries. But plainly. I think being understanding that it will take time us the only way it will work. Zero to hero is unreasonable and unlikely and setting all of us up to fail.

I like the repeat order stuff and I will do my shopping online from now on - never been organised enough but that’s a new thing for 2020.

OP posts:
MamaKarmaLlama · 06/01/2020 17:09

Sounds like a great idea, re:extra help. Maybe you also need to sit him down and have a conversation about being thoughtful to one another, re: presents and the like. It's nice to be appreciated and considered and these things can easily get neglected...but maybe he doen't know how much it really means to you. Sometimes you have to to have a blunt conversation abouth these things to make them happen. Good luck for 2020, hope you get everything sorted.

WillowSummerSloth · 06/01/2020 17:30

OP- we are simar in our household. I would reach breaking point every 6m or so, have an argument and he'd commit to sharing more of the mental load and within weeks, he'd go back to normal. No malicious intent at all, just reverting back to habit.
Some things have gradually improved. Firstly, as the children are older I'm less bothered by it as things are easier. We now also have a specific WhatsApp group with all children /life admin/ household jobs. So if anything occurs to either of us, it goes on there and we have a business meeting once a week to allocate tasks. (guess who adds most jobs to the list?!) but it at least makes me feel that we have shared responsibility for them. I insist he reads the school newsletter. We now have gousto so that neither of us shop/ meal plan etc. We have gardener, cleaner, tutor. I.e. We've outsourced everything we can.
I'm now working on forward planning so thinking about his annual leave, school holiday cover when we're both working.
All these things have made small differences but I've not reached tipping point in over a year.
Also he buys all his family Xmas presents.

WillowSummerSloth · 06/01/2020 17:32

Just to add on to my previous post, we book a babysitter once or twice a week so we can go out for supper together. It allows us to relax and have fun together so we're not dominated by chores.

Dividingthementalload · 07/01/2020 22:59

Thank you for that willow. Might get him to read the newsletter - he doesn’t even know there is one! I agree farming out will definitely help. It is already.

Change is afoot. He’s taken the kids to school this week. He’s dropped some work. He cooked dinner tonight (gusto type box came today - amazing, no thinking). He’s done washing. Emptier the dishwasher twice daily. Done kids breakfast every day. Changed a wet bed even! I’m slightly flabbergasted. Long may it last.

OP posts:
FusionChefGeoff · 07/01/2020 23:10

Sorry I haven't RTFT but something that's helped
me is making sure if anything new crops up try to hand it straight to DH before it automatically becomes your job.

Eg we decided to switch to milk delivery to save plastic, I made it totally DH responsibility to manage. Ditto getting gas for soda stream machine (he's eventually sorted out a subscription service). Got a leak due to problem with the bath - he's taken full charge of sorting it out.

Sometimes it's harder to ' hand over' something that you've been doing for ages but if you've never been involved, it's easy. Plus it's lovely that stuff just happens and I have NO mental input!

aroundtheworldyet · 07/01/2020 23:16

I’m so glad things are changing for you. And that it’s positive and he’s been honest and takeN it all on board
Positive steps

PickAChew · 07/01/2020 23:16

He's selectively incompetent.

How the fuck can anyone demsnd a high salary and not have a firm grasp on being a decent human being and parentunless they have decided it's beneath them?

Momniscient · 07/01/2020 23:36

Good grief, don't get a gardener. Don't take away something that needs doing, and gets done and enjoyed! But something in that works well. Replicate it.

Work to his strengths. He must do some sort of project management at work - ask him what systems he's used to, can you incorporate that at home? Sounds mad, but we use Trello for "unusual" housework and it's done absolute wonders for mental load stuff. Took a few weeks to pay dividends, but finding a system that works for the two of you is the first part

Knittedfairies · 07/01/2020 23:42

That's progress OP!

Yahboosnubsme · 08/01/2020 07:19

I could have written this post myself, right down to the boarding school background and the lack of thought about me. Different to your situation, I work full-time and am the higher earner (I earn twice what he does), and am literally on the verge of walking out as no amount of discussion seems to work (I'm 7 years in to this).

It sounds like you have managed to get him to make some initial changes, which is great, however I'm wondering if this will become long-term and sustainable behaviour. Good luck op!

Dividingthementalload · 08/01/2020 08:00

Yahboo- I’m sorry to hear that. I genuinely think being at boarding school changes mentality and breaks a child emotionally. I have an 8 year old and can’t imagine her living away from me, she had so many needs in so many ways that only a mum (or dad!) provide. I think they harden, early, out of necessity. So sad for everyone.

Is your partner is like mine, and has so many redeeming qualities, it’s worth persevering. It genuinely took me mentioning divorce for it to get past his emotional security fence. He had said that he genuinely believed that the long periods between rows meant everything was ok, rather than connecting the dots. Some people might say that’s being deliberately shit and selfish but I think a psychiatrist would have a field day on his early life and marvel he’s come through comparatively unscathed.

And re the garden he agrees with getting a gardener. There will always be things to do there but he will lose the excuse to back out of everything else. While he gets used to a new share of responsibilities that is really important to me - so he doesn’t feel shit looking at it (I don’t care). Weve agreed that he can cancel in future if he wants to - he won’t, he’s quite excited about meeting them this morning to get them started. I think he is like me - a bit sniffy about paying people for things you feel you ought to be doing yourself - but we both now agree that it’s beneficial to everyone to not give ourselves too much to do and carve out some time just for us.

OP posts:
KidCaneGoat · 08/01/2020 09:02

It all sounds really positive. And hopefully he’ll start to see the benefits too and enjoy being more involved in family life. Esp if he didn’t have that when he was little.

Dividingthementalload · 08/01/2020 09:24

Funnily enough we have just run out of fuel in the home office where we both work. I am having to sit in my hands not to sort it but I do all the other fuel things in the main house (I got a gauge fitted in the house to avoid running out there). It’s very inconvenient for him today as he is with the prospective gardener now and then needs to knuckle down. But I think it will only take physical inconvenience for him to realise that the gas doesn’t just refuel itself (someone has to keep an eye on it), just like he’s learning that the dinner doesn’t buy and make itself, the kids don’t put their shoes on the first time you ask and the wet beds don’t change themselves.

I’m working at the only table in the house which means he’s going to have to sort out the gas issue after the gardener and then go to his other office in town. He’ll lose time and be inconvenienced. He wasn’t Impressed with my comment ‘this is not part of mental load, it’s yours’ (we built office primarily for him for lifestyle reasons).

I’m not being too harsh am I? This is the only way he’s going to learn what it takes to keep life going forward smoothly, isn’t it?

OP posts:
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