Dividing the mental load?

[Dividingthementalload]

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

I’m so glad. I wish you both well.

I think agreeing a division of stuff and then sticking to it works best. Your plan on meals sounds good but he just isn't going to notice laundry and do it - instead if he is responsible for, say, his own laundry and one of the kids laundry (separate laundry baskets), that is more likely to actually happen

I would start by having a talk and giving him specific jobs, yes it's managing him to start with but hopefully it will become second nature.

Firstly make him in charge of feeding you all at the weekend and I would get him to do his own laundry (so if he fucks up it doesn't affect you)

When my OH first came to live with me he didn't do any of the mental load as it just hadn't been on his radar. Now he does more than his share and will just get in with stuff without me talking him through it.

He won't change, he's an intelligent adult, why did it need you to point out and organise all these task for him. I hope it works out for you but I think you may be disappointed if you've had this argument before and nothing has changed. Surely he could manage to spend 15 mins shopping online for something for you if presents are so important to you that you even buy your own and pretend it's from him in front of your kids?

I couldn't get past the fact he was taking a paper into bath time, this from a father who leaves home before they're up and often gets home after they're in bed. And it needed you to point out how shit that was. How does that make him a good father?

I think you'll spend your whole life battling against this and end up worn out and fed up

Apple tree I think he struggles to switch off. On those occasions he would probably have spent 13 hours already working and travelling. It’s exhausting. And, if I’m honest, having had such distant parenting himself, he had needed things like this pointing out over the years.

Last night’s chat was enlightening. The kids totally overlooking him for their basic needs (cuddles, wet beds, friend issues etc) has hit home. He doesn’t want to be overlooked. Sometimes we need things pointing out to improve what we’re doing. He won’t be perfect but hopeful that things will improve. If nothing else a very honest and blunt discussion has commenced which I can tap into at any time if I want to. He’d already had a discussion with the kids before I got up aboit being in charge today and listening to him/doing what he asks (he’ll say do you teeth but not follow through which in small children is useless). So it feels like the desire is there and some effort is being made. That’s all I want, perfection isn’t necessary.

On presents - I do the shopping for these including myself because I know what I like.

I accept one of my wonderful husbands imperfections as being really bad at spending a shit ton of money and getting me something that I don't really like, don't need and won't use. I think it's best, tbh. Similarly, with stuff for the kids - he's a wonderful, wonderful man, but that is not his forte. So I do it!

I’m going to set up a wish list for presents fir my birthday in the summer and keep it rolling for Christmas. The surprise will be what I get.

On those occasions he would probably have spent 13 hours already working and travelling. It’s exhausting.

Do you work 13 hour days too, OP?

YANBU to expect him to do his fair share of the chores and household jobs or at the least to delegate them to someone who isn’t you. YABU to call all of this “mental load” as it’s not. Mental load is situations where you have to suppress your emotions or act in a certain way for a job (e.g. being polite in customer service)

YABU to call all of this “mental load” as it’s not. Mental load is situations where you have to suppress your emotions or act in a certain way for a job (e.g. being polite in customer service)

What OP described is commonly known as mental load by everyone I know.

I have found that men like “solving a problem” be it yours or his
Give him specific tasks, he won’t change his thought pattern towards you but he might do more

Well done, and the conversation is a good start - the hard part will be the follow-through. Easy to keep it up for a weekend or two; hard to change for real. I agree though that it's really important to model female equality in the home.

Some more suggestions:

• He does their breakfasts during the week. You say he goes into work early but doesn't need to, and that mornings are stressful. So would the timings work if he leaves a little later after he's sorted out breakfasts?

• He gets gym time, but you do too. He ensures his work schedule lets him come home at a reasonable time once (twice?) a week so you have a regular evening off.

• Let him sort out the new gardener - finding, hiring etc.

• Could he do any kids' parties at weekends? Depending on ages, there are loads of those to buy & wrap presents for / ferry to / socialise awkwardly at. Would be a nice way for him to get to know his kids and their friends, and you wouldn't be there so the kids would have to default to him. Could lead onto him being responsible for organising your children's parties (if you don't enjoy doing it).

OP you are quite contradictory tbh.
You say you want to work school hours so you can bring up your DC yourself without help but then seem to resent doing that and call it "Mental load"

You say you are glad his lack of involvement means you can bring up the children your way but are angry about this also
If he doesnt do something your way , you step in but then get angry with him again.

It all seems very PA, read my mind, but if you do it "wrong" then guess what -anger.

Why are there so many "jobs" at the weekend?
You are in a stalemate where for 10 years you have had 6 monthly huge rows and nothing has changed.
I agree that its much easier if one person does the whole of a task so just tell him, for now, what needs doing at the weekends.
I know you shouldnt have to but after a few weeks it will become the new "normal"
Also if he suggests pissing off to the garden , suggest the indoor jobs that need doing first.
Also if he does do that, send the DC out with him and just go out, shopping, a coffee etc
Do you ever go out with friends etc?
You dont mention it at all.

I get up at 7, sort out kids til drop off, work til pick up and then pick them up, chauffeur them to activities or play/chat/supervise homework/music practice with them, cook their dinner, clear up, clean whatever needs cleaning in house, do washing, sort out bath time, reading, bedtime. I then make our dinner and empty tumbler, out clothes away, clear up dishwasher. I don’t sit down before 10pm. So yes, I do 13 hour shifts. I used to do 13+ hours in the office too - also exhausting, in a different way but no less or more tiring. Both are physically and herbs kit draining in their off ways but bring their joys and rewards too.

The weekend is like any other day- cooking, clearing up, tidying, washing, shopping (no time in week though often do online), looking after the kids, uniform, activities and parties as well as household stuff we don’t do in week like bills, birthdays, arranging holidays/to see friends, sorting out our tax, and other stuff which makes the go round. During the holidays there were two parents but only one person parenting and taking the lions share of the otter stuff and taking responsibility for the entire mental load (see my descriptor further up, it’s a universally acknowledged phrase for the weight of responsibility ordinarily taken on my women in the family even if they work the same hours as men).

I don’t resent the mental load in the working week (as I’ve said numerous times in here). It’s the imbalance which remains despite all of us being on holiday. Two weeks off as family showed that. I feel entirely justified challenging that and fighting for change. I will not allow my children to think this is normal and let his natural sexism bleed into the next generation.

The decision for me to work part time Was a family one actively promoted by my partner. Before that I was the more hardworking and career minded. He didn’t want to do the childcare and I did. But it meant I gave up a massive financial trajectory as a result. I remain well paid but my earning potential was huge as I was about to receive a career making promotion which everyone in my sphere aims for. We couldn’t juggle two of us doing that- would debate who would go home to relieve the nanny at 7pm having left them at 8am (I went back to work between my kids and for a year after my second). My kids looked to our nanny for their immediate needs rather than us as we could not allow that to continue.

I don’t resent stepping off the greasy ladder until the holidays when, as Pointed out by pp, I assume the role of housekeeper and mother of three. That wasn’t what we agreed, and both undervalues and underestimates the work and value that goes into raising children.

What OP described is commonly known as mental load by everyone I know

In my 5 plus decades I've never heard anyone use this phrase. It's crept onto MN and is - to use MN parlance- wanky.

Paprika - it’s even got a brilliant cartoon that demonstrates what it means. Google it, it’s enlightening. But a commonly used phrase understood by most (as on this thread).

Does he have a condition? Aspergers maybe? Maybe his mum was the same.

And it’s not something I got from mumsnet, it’s often discussed on news/ in papers/on radio as well as among peers/friends/family. It’s certainly a modern phenomenon as women continue to push for equality in all areas of the working and domestic arena. Perhaps it’s not topical for you if you are out of child rearing years and therefore falls out of your immediate points of interest. Among 30/40 something working parents it is a common topic. For obvious reasons. Loads of stats etc to support the theory too.

OP - I say this nicely, outsource the bloody cleaning and laundry. Cut back on the kids' activities. Go out and have some fun with your family at weekends. Have tea at Pizza Express and come home and watch Netflix together. Let the kids miss the occasional bath time. Like I said before, if I was earning shedloads (I don't) and worked long hours (I wouldn't because I'm idle), I wouldn't be spending my weekends pairing socks.

Perhaps it’s not topical for you if you are out of child rearing years and therefore falls out of your immediate points of interest

Well, I've got a 15 year old so not that far out of child rearing years And I'm a feminist so it pains me when women martyr themselves.

I've heard loads of people use the phrase mental load outside of MN, and in the precise way that the OP means it.

I think what you are experiencing is what many of us experience in a marriage and after a significant time, we fall in to our ‘roles’ then it becomes increasingly difficult to change them. As a result you start to feel resentful and that you are being taken for granted. He probably doesn’t see all these things that need doing and if he does it’s easier to ask you how to do them but this pattern of behaviour is also partly your fault. You have taken the lions share and enabled this. He needs to relearn his new role, like starting a new job I guess. Communication is always the key and sounds like you have already got the ball rolling , which is great. The hard part is keeping it up so maybe monthly meetings to make sure you are both feeling happy with it all and reassessing what needs improving or changing and how you both get your down time. Best of luck. I totally get why you want to be a home bringing up your kids, I wanted to be that person too and so glad I did.

Perhaps it is how marriages go but not this one. I was talking to a friend and saying that I would be less bothered about the mental load if he were thoughtful or generous or showed his love/appreciation in other ways, but He doesn’t. I haven’t had a single thought through gift in our entire relationship. I don’t care about stuff and can what I like but it’s lack of thought. He got me no gift this Christmas. He doesn’t get bday presents and wraps ill thought through tat last minute with the kids. He never arranges any Socials or means out or even says ‘I’m going to shop and cook dinner tonight’ (he did this every Saturday on Mat leave but despite my workload increasing overall in return to wotk it has filtered out). Basically he has become a selfish man and that Is what I am railing against. If it’s the choice between a selfish man and no marriage I’d genuinely rather have two happier households with less disposable income. It really has got to that stage:

Some people don’t mind this allocation of roles. Some don’t mind no gifts. Some people accept complete selfishness in a marriage. Some don’t mind taking the lions share all the time. I doubt anyone would tolerate all of those things at once for longer than 15 years. I am perimenopausal but what has changed is my tolerance for this shit, not it’s overall reasonableness.

We do go out at weekends for meals and walks and days out etc. I organise the lot. Doesn’t change the mental load. I go away with friends too - the kids are well cared for but their hair isn’t brushed, the house is a tip and a mountain of washing/drying/putting away awaits me so the shine is rather worn off. I go out with friends but always after kids are in bed if not asleep - no one goes Out before 730-8pm anyway when they have kids do they?

And I am farming out. Cleaner now twice a week starting today. Potential gardener visiting this week. I’ve booked one afternoon of kids in after school club too so I have a full work day to tackle long jobs when I need to. I realise that it isn’t just my husband that needs to change and I must stop doing it all myself.

I realise that it isn’t just my husband that needs to change and I must stop doing it all myself

Woooo hoo!
Fantastic OP!
Stop the 13 hour "shifts" there is nothing that should take that long.
Posh ready meals, laundry one night a week, DH is solely responsible for clearing up after the meal and emptying the dishwasher in the morning.
Oh and if you are doing his shirts for work, he can take them himself to a laundry service and pick up.
As for the other stuff I really wouldnt describe a man like this as a kind, caring husband and father.
But thats probably for another day ...

In a similar situation. What has helped:

You’ve got money, use it to make your life easier (gardener, cleaner more often).
Defined things that are his problem, with minimal consequence to you - DH does dinner for us one weekend evening (same day each week), buying, cooking, I don’t remind him he just needs to do it. Likewise presents for him family/friends - not my problem.
Meals for the kids - explain a few basic and always-present meal options for them with ingredients you always have, give him a time when he needs to get on with it.
A defined job - in our case it’s swimming with the toddler. He does it, books it, packs for it, feeds her after etc. If he forgets x or y it’s on him.