Dividing the mental load?

[Dividingthementalload]

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

If he works a lot of hours and is in a high pressure job then he needs time to relax as do you. Would he respond better if you both timetable home chores too? For example, Saturday PM, put washing away for kids, make lunch and specify what lunch should be? I realise this would still involve an element of you planning but he is not going to change overnight and from your post it sounds like he is not an awful person just mentally checked out of such chores as he considers them 'your' job. Once he has a job list of his own, that might inspire him to take initiative.

It sounds like my husband ..he just doesn’t see what needs doing ....I don’t think he’s going to miraculously change and become thoughtful, but depending on the time you want to invest you could make it easier for him to help.(I know, I know ...but there is no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face)

• list of acceptable meals for kids, or maybe a meals for kids cook book
• meals for £10 that you buy, photograph and email him so he knows to get them out of the fridge and follow instructions. Or Saturday night is Tesco pasta bake
• permanent marker dot in the label of clothes, one for each of you (or glue/iron in labels for the kids and none for you)
• list of things you expect him to look out for, like emptying the dishwasher

I think once he starts hopefully doing some of the stuff that can be ‘instructed’ then you’ll be able to live with him walking around the bucket on the kitchen floor

I don’t want someone coming in every day. I just want some division of labour during weekends and holidays. And the reason the gardening has to go is because it is easy to farm out and it is the very task which takes him outside for the the whole os Saturday to listen to the football

A cleaner every day would help enormously, why on earth wouldn’t you want that? Sub contract everything you can, you can afford it. Sell the mental load to someone else. If I’m honest, stopping him doing the one domestic task he enjoys and does well just sounds spiteful and, as a pp says, fresh air and exercise is good for his physical and mental health.

Well I hope your talk goes well.
But I personally wouldn’t give him a list.
I would ask him to come up with ideas of what he can do more of in terms on taking on some of the mental load and general household chores.

Otherwise it’s just more mothering.

And just because you have a lot of money, and his mother was not affectionate and he ended up in boarding school doesn’t mean it’s ok that he doesn’t stop to think and care about you.

I would have a think about when the last time he really showed you he cared about you as a person not just a housekeeper/mother.

And stop making excuses for him. Because deep down you’re clearly very upset, and then on this thread you make ENDLESS excuses for him. That’s the clear message he’s received from you. It’s OK to go to work early and read the paper and have a coffee for an hour. It’s OK not to do anything about a load of Urgent washing. It’s OK not to get you a gift.
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Darth that post made me smile - that’s us every bloodybholiday!! We start our journids EVERY BLOODY TIME wit me being unable to talk doe Halfan hour because he hasn’t been able to fit the bags in the car (well I can?) or has forgotten the kids shoes (we once had to buy new seTS in Cornwall because he hadn’t put the shoes by the door in the car) or just done fuck all while I tazzed around like a mad idiot!! I like your suggestions and will weave them into my chat today.

I hear you PP on the gardening. I’ll ask what we can do to carve up the jobs better whilst not removing that completely.

Cleaner, I love my cleaner and I love the clean it brings but I don’t want it every day, I like my house to myself (I work from home) and don’t want to feel like someone is coming in every day so I have to tidy/be polite etc while I should be working. Some people love it, but it’s not for me. Same for a housekeeper. The deep clean is great but I don’t see there is enough to do in one job lot to justify someone coming in more often. I agree mid week the responsibilities are mine. Issue is carving that which remains at the weekend and during holidays.

Thank you around, I do hear what you are saying. And I agree with you. I’ll stop apologising for Him, but I don’t want to forget the stuff that’s great about him either because that’s totally relevant too. You hear one sided stuff all too often on here. He isn’t all bad, he isn’t a monster, but he can be a selfish shit and I’ve had enough.

I think also it is about finding what he gets bothered about around the house. Dh gets bothered about out of date food in the fridge. Doesn't bother me because I just look at it as I pull it out and as I put it there have rough idea of use by dates. DC all look at dates. Perfect, clearing the fridge out is now his job. I fill it, he clears it out. His friends coming around, he tidies up. Maybe with garden it is about partly keeping him doing some of it but either getting a gardener or maybe a robot lawnmower so he can't hide behind it.

I can relate to all your feelings on the mental load. We have a young daughter and I have to plan and think of absolutely everything, even down to the MOT on the car which he mainly uses. I didn't notice any of this until out daughter was born - the complete lack of time I had to do anything once I had a baby to look after made me look at what we were both doing. I saw him, with lots of time on the sofa/ on his phone/ in the garden and me constantly on the go, cleaning ,planning, tidying, washing etc and never sitting. I have to put out clothes at night for my daughter if he is getting her dressed (his job on the days we are both working and she is going to nursery). I have managed to farm out some jobs which he now does daily-hanging up the laundry, emptying dishwasher, picking up toys in living room at night. Beyond that, he just is not capable of / willing to carry any mental load. So I have to say to him, can you hoover? Can you put this in the baby bag etc? I think you are highly unlikely to be able to change the general pattern of behaviour of your DH. He isn't going to transform into someone who thinks/plans/ remembers. The best you can do is give him a list of jobs/ requests (write them down) and they are his jobs to do. Other things can be ad hoc - can you take DD to party on Sat). I am certain he won't be able to completely change but if you love him, make the best of it and make small changes which will add up.

My husband is similar.
When my children were younger he would take them swimming or playground. But I always had the mental load.
But he was always more interested in his work than his children.
Now they are older he doesn't have close relationship with them. The older DD leaves away now and she doesn't call him or text. He doesn't either. If I didn't tell him about her he wouldn't have known what's going on in her life.
Perhaps you could tell your husband that this is what will happen if he carries on like that.

I think you are still hearing what you want to hear. You do not want a daily cleaner because it impacts on you having the house to yourself. Presumably, he would be prepared to pay for more help in the house?
He works 90 hours a week and provides you with 'big bucks', but you want him to take on the 'mental load'.
I do think you sound controlling and you want domestic arrangements all your way. A bit of compromise would not go amiss here.

@Dividingthementalload, he just took them on. He enjoys cooking far more than I do, and the other tasks he adopted before kids, so they’ve always been “his” chores.

I think you probably speak for many women here! I do wonder if sometimes you have the worst of both worlds ,when you are P/T in a job like this.He is a dollar hound chasing the big money ,while you are busting a gut trying to keep on top of everything else!Does he take you and your work seriously do you think?.He probably feels he needs downtime at W/E and is right but you need some too! Try to suggest some sort of things that he may take to .If he likes gardening can the children "help " him with that ?.What about having some sort of take away or meal out one of the W/E days .He takes them swimming which is good .Obviously it would be nice if he helped with laundry and will probably "forget" after a few weeks thats the problem! I dont think he maybe realises the workload by the sounds of it!

I think with the gardener, if you're not going to have one then the condition is that whilst he's gardening he has to go out with the kids and get them involved with what he's doing so it's not just an excuse to have the football on whilst you're run ragged with the kids inside.

I would personally still get a gardener though, as there's always more you can do with gardening so he can still have it as a hobby but it takes the need out of him having to do it.

If he's such a high earner, and you work too, you need and can afford way more help. Get a babysitter and take him down th eoub, explain that you see the cuyrrent situation as setting a dangerous precedent, where you, a qualified, professional person, has been manipulated into the role of SAHM while he opts out of all domestic roles with clear conscience because his earnings are high. Tell him that's unhealthy for your morale, for the balance of your relationship and for the family dynamics long term.

Suggest someone comes in to do all the laundry and change the beds each week and that your cleaner comes twice a week, so you have very little actual cleaning to do, just day-to-day tidying.

Suggest he does an activity with the children for half a day every weekend - not taking them to swim class, but one where he engages with them. And ask him, in recognition of every single job you did over Christmas, to plan some family days out - which he organises, right down to the picnic/ lunch reservation, backpack of wellies/nappies etc and route map.

If he's not interested, I would down tools on absolutely everything related to him. Don't be his PA or housemaid. He picks up his own clothes, admin, does his own errands, organises his own presents for his parents' birthdays etc. Not to make it a battle ground, just until he feels chaotic and uncomfortable and recognises your contribution.

I also get what you're saying about a daily cleaner. When I had a similar conversation with dh he suggested having a daily cleaner for 2 hours a day, but then I just felt it was another person to organise and yes not having that person in your space.

I do think farming out laundry to someone is a good idea though even if it is just ironing / sorting and putting away, I'll do this when I ho back to work.

Also whilst I think your dh should step up i think a lot of people here comment based on experience of a £30-50k job that's really not the same as earning well into six figures, mentally and the amount of time you have is really not the same!

My DH earns 6 figures and still manages to participate in family life and not treat me like a housekeeper/nanny.

I also have a pretty full on job but because we both share responsibility we make it work.

The ' I have a busy, important job' is just a cop out.

In this case the OP's husband has ample opportunity to step up but he actively chooses not to. It's nothing short of selfish.

I think you have to arrange your life to work round his failings so you aren't constantly annoyed or disappointed. So many men are on the periphery of their children's lives. And just stay like that unless the DW chivvies, arranges family stuff, includes him - and are less interested still in the DGCs.
That has been my experience.

@Dividingthementalload you asked for comments on your plan, so I've taken you at your word... plus I've added in some other comments. My dmil wsa great and made dh do his share of the chores as a child, but always stepped in at the last minute and said "Oh don't bother with the pots and pans, leave them to steep and I'll do them in the morning". Hence dh now thinks that washing up involves plates, glasses, cutlery, or putting same items in the dishwasher. He still thinks there is a magic dirty, greasy pan fairy...

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. Actually that seems really tough, given that he's not used to it and doesn't have all the ideas of what's in the fridge / freezer. My dh looks in the fridge and says there's nothing to eat, I can look in the same fridge and make a 3 course meal. We just have different skills.

Maybe he shops and cooks for one meal for the two of you, and makes the kids breakfasts (start by giving him some options of what's available and what they like).

For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Yes. But maybe have a list of the tasks that need to be done and you and he can each choose two to do and complete The completing stuff is important, so the 'washing' task is clear that's it about washing, drying, sorting, ironing, putting away.

Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees. Yes, get a gardener, but maybe also leave other 'gardening tasks' on the list (above) so there's 2 hours of tree trimming, but not 7 hours of time wasting!

I'd also increase the hours that your cleaner comes (maybe twice a week and add in things like changing beds, washing / ironing bedsheets etc) but also get your kids involved. So if the cleaner is coming on Monday and Thursday, then every Sunday evening and Wednesday evening everybody spend 15 minutes doing household tasks / tidying. And that includes your dh. So he must be home on Wednesday evening to join in. One night a week to come home on time, not too much to ask? or maybe he will find an excuse for it, every week

I think it can be quite difficult to share the mental load (often one person 'sees' things more than the other, or is more upset by mess or disorder) but holding the mental load is easier if the rest of the family are sharing in the 'doing' of the stuff that needs to be done.

Lists, lists, lists. Visible reminders of what needs to be done, when, and how many steps are involved. It all helps you, your dh, your dc to recognise the extent of what makes your life easy and comfortable. If its all in your head, then no-one knows, and they are surprised when you get angry / resentful.

Relax a bit. So, if the kitchen floor isn't spotless will it still be OK?

Having a sense of humour (see first para re the dirty pan fairy). Humour has been the best way to get dh to see the error of his ways.

Are you sure you want to insist on the gardener? Clearly DH needs to change but you’ve said he works very hard Monday-Friday, and if a few hours in the garden at the weekend are his way of relaxing then it seems mean to simply take them away — as long as he can fit them in around the changes he’s going to have to make to become more of a partner in relation to family responsibilities.

What a depressing post euphoria
Thankfully the men I know would be devastated to be on the periphery of their children's lives and are brilliant, involved fathers

Does sound hard OP, but I do wonder if part of the reason he doesn't do stuff is because he won't do it right i.e. the way you want it done. For example, I would have thought it was imminently sensible to squeeze in a swim whilst DCs are in the pool - used to do it myself - and being responsible for the getting there on time and the changing at each end isn't nothing.

I've found with DH the only way to get him to step up is to step back completely and accept that some chores will never be embraced or done well - I've actually asked him never to put laundry in the tumble dryer as he doesn't take out the right things and has shrunk a few items. Can you go away for a weekend and leave him to it ? Oh and don't prepare every meal in advance so he doesn't have to. Leave him to it , but at the same time you have to accept that the DCs may have a suboptimal diet that weekend. For me the benefit for the DCs of having an involved DF far outweighs the loss of a few vegetables. If you come back and he has not fed them at all - well then it's probably divorce talking time.

What you want is for him to take partial control, but given that you have the project plan in your head, and haven't shared it with him, he has no way of knowing what you intend to do, what needs doing and when it needs to be done by. You are the house manager and you have to specifically delegate.

The only way this is going to work is if you allocate him certain static tasks that must be done at a regular interval, but require no subjective opinion about when to do them.
For instance. "Hoover the family room on saturday morning", rather than "Hoover the family room on saturday morning if it needs it".

Then get him to set alerts in his phone for the appropriate time to do these things.
If you don't you will get increasingly cross because he hasn't done it, or he will say that you didn't remind him. Either way you've doubled your mental load, and doing it yourself would have been easier and less stressful.

Another option is have a list of chores for you both to do that day, and you both tick them off as you do them.

Asking him to shop and cook for the whole weekend will just result in takeaways, and I think it's a big ask when you are provisioning the household anyway and he works long hours.

Pick your battles and everyone will be happy, but don't expect the weekend to be your days off.

Thank you for the latest comments. I get that my plan might be too much too soon. I think specific jobs are great (bed changing maybe?) and definitely cooking at least one meal a day. That’s not too much. He’s a great cook but only does the show pony stuff when people visit (which is amazing).

I reckon cleaner twice a week including some Bed changing, laundry and ironing is a really good idea, I will ask my cleaner if she has any more time at the other end of the week. I think this is a good idea even though it feels a bit like overkill - better than husbandkill!

And yes to humour. That’s how I get through the 6 months in between blow out rows which usually coincide with holidays (so xmas and summer) when the issue really comes to a head.

Plus I want to lay down a hormonal marker. I am having quite extreme symptoms and (I think) dealing with them really well. But it’s hard. And this previously entirely independent self sufficient woman needs some tlc and active attention. I will make that clear too.

He came back from swimming without their coats so I sent them all back immediately to collect - cause and effect people! I’m going to continue like that too - no pants? Put a wash on then. What’s for dinner? Pasta - will you make it pls? And so forth.

OP watch out for him taking over the cooking. As you say, 'show pony; stuff and then leaving you with heaps of pans to clean late at night. I had a word with DH today about this. I said when I cook I ensure I use as few pans as possible whereas when he cooks, he manages to use every pan and roasting itn in the house to produce meals which taste and look no different from my one-pot recipes. You oculd set a rule that whoever cooks washes the pots too, or at least shares the washing up afterwards. If he complains, explain that you hate it too. It's boring and you are clever and could be out earning and swanning aroudn leaving skivvy work to others but you both agreed that your family would be better off if you were around to be active parents and that means not assuming that because you're the one who put her career on hold, you should be downgraded.

Amen to that. I cook a meal and clear as I go. He cooks and the kitchen looks like Armageddon. It’s far easier to cook myself.