Dividing the mental load?

[Dividingthementalload]

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

This reminds me of a thread where I first heard the term 'strategic incompetence ' in relation to the OP's husband. Hope you get somewhere OP!

Yes it does look like Hiroshima after he’s cooked but he has learned to clear up himself which is great - no point having a nice dinner made if you have 3 hours of cleanIng up afterwards.

He’s just asked me where to put some new crockery we got for Christmas. I said you decide. He said ‘but where does it go?’. I repeated - it’s new, you decide. He clearly thought I was being awkward. I then went to put away a new knife sharpener wed bought. He said ‘ I thought you might want to read the instructions first’. I gave him the biggest daggers and suggested he read them himself. Have now locked mysekf in the upstairs loo in a proper fume. Why the fuck would I want to read sharpener instructions after a Christmas of reading lego/toy/iPad/every bloody set of instructions all by mysekf?

I do think I’m talking to a wall sometimes. It just doesn’t sink in. He genuinely doesn’t get it: what’s the bloody point in talking AGAIN if he isn’t going to get some bloody emotional intelligence?

I can't understand the people who are saying let him feed the kids but accept that they might get given a jam sandwich for lunch. I mean in what universe is that ok. I mean, what adult cannot make eggs on toast or whatever. Good grief.

OP I think you need to be very clear about what you are asking for. Weekend help but what exactly. When one person has been the "boss" of the house for so long, it is hard for the other one to step forward I think. I've always preferred very clearly defined jobs so ie he has to do lunch both days, out of what is in the fridge/cupboard. He has to do a load of washing and hang it up/put in the tumble dryer, both days.

Not wishy washy stuff otherwise it will never get done. I think it is fair to share weekend days for sure.

I'm struggling to see the problem here. He works 90 hours per week and you work at the most half of that. I work half the hours my DH works so I pick up all the domestic side of our lives. Seems like a normal division of
Labour to me.

Hiya,
I reckon your plan is ok, apart from dropping the gardening. If he likes it and it's relaxing I reckon he won't go for it. I'd also suggest leaving him on his own for a few weekends a year (include the Monday morning - so he does the school run & realises you need clean uniform for it). That will help him learn and avoid the situation where he does stuff 'wrong' and you criticise him.

I do go away and they have a ball but the place looks like a bomb has hit, no homework is done, no washing, no organisation, no uniform, nada. So i do it but safe in the knowledge that I’ll come back to all that shit.

User 149, I work school hours and then m, if I add up all th childcare, chauffeuring, cooking, cleanIng and general housework duties I’m way over 90. So dividing labour at the weekends is entirely fair. As I’ve said, I’m not ‘kept’, I’m a high earner and I don’t have to put up with it because he keeps me financially or funds a lifestyle. He doesn’t.

You bought your own present for christmas? Really so your DC wouldnt be upset.....dear god your DH is dreadful

My DH is a bit like this and our dynamic is similar. He does accuse me of being controlling and I accuse him of leaving nearly everything to me.

He works long hours. I work full time too (very nearly) in a demanding well paid job. His mum ruined him and that is still around even though intellectually he completely agrees stuff should be shared.

Anyway it was all sort of ok until I got perimenopausal and then I got ANGRY. It’s been really tough for both of us and we continue to work on it. I just suddenly had no tolerance and the shift has been hard for him too. I have loads of hot flushes at night so really disturbed sleep. The kids are teens and need support.

I’m not sure what the answer is but what worked before is tougher now. Lots of pressures on us both.

I have stopped putting our washing away. It piles up until he does it. I still wash, dry and fold it but leave it then as my taking a stand

I hear you cankles, my sleep is intermittently shit, I feel gross from night sweats too, im tired and my rage is off the scale. I’ve always intermittently had enough - prompted invariably by a holiday where I’m peppered with ‘what are we having/doing/wearing - but it feels different now. Like the end of the road - for my patience, not my marriage I hope.

Cleaner has agreed to do a few hours on a monday (she comes Fridays now) to do primarily bed linen changes, washing and ironing. That feels like a good first step. I will take pp advice and nake sure they all do 15 mins of tidying on Sundays and Thursdays. He’s back late but that’s ok.

And yes I bought presents for him to wrap, not because the kids round be upset so much as it would give them an awful impression of him. He worked so hard in the run up, was incredibly strsssec and I did it foe all of them - to calm him and to show that in a marriage you are equal respect gifts. They are too young to see the awful truth that their dad doesn’t do presents.

you both work and he cant be arsed getting his wife a present but manages a trip to the gym? i am sorry but he is awful and your excuse that he works really hard is just that an excuse....my DH does 3 jobs and funny enough still manages to head off albeit lastminute to get me and his DC presents....your carrying the load for all. Cant believe your even excusing him not bothering getting you a present.....thats shocking

Have you thought about relationship counseling?
Someone to facilitate the conversation about sharing mental load/helping more with family and household stuff.
From what you've said, the conversations take place every six months or so, but degenerate into rows - an independent referee, who could prompt you both to look at things differently might be useful.

"He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful."

I think YABU. You've already stated that he ensures the financial security of the family, works very long hours, travels extensively. You work part-time and take on the hosuehold responsibilities.

I've been in your shoes and my solution was to use the comfortable household income to buy in help; cleaner/housekeeper, easily prepared healthy food, eating out a couple of times a week, DIY becomes GSI and use some of the money to get a babysitter/go out as a couple or as a family more. Also pay a babysitter to build in time during the week for you to do what you want too - a movie with friends, running, a class.

The thing that is not great is not bothering with a gift but it doesn't sound like he experienced a childhood filled with demonstrations and tokens of love. My solution to this is to give my husband very detailed instructions & a list with links to items I'd like. Never disappointed that way - I do think women overestimate the importance of gifts.

FWIW it sounds like he's doing a good job providing for your family, giving you all financial security and giving you choices that many other women don't have. He can't do everything - you don't either. It sounds like you could have a nice life without resentment if you looked at it differently.

Well, you both decided that hed continue to earn and you'd do the home stuff. If something has to give the easiest thing is your job.
The alternative is to slowly teach him to be more independent and the only way I've found to do that is to gently and persistently refuse to take responsibility. So what's shall we give the kids for dinner' is met with 'hmm what's in the fridge?' After a few months it is possible to achieve the stage of 'shall I do the kids scrambled eggs/ f fingers etc' however it takes even more mental load yo coach this into him

Thank you popupipa - that’s really helpful to hear the other side. Thinking.

Yes the coaching drives me nuts - which means it’s often easier just to do it myself. I do wonder whether it’s that strategic incompetence someone raised but he’s genuinely not like that. No malice, just disinterest and incompetence.

My family were astonished that he couldn’t put the car seats in the car. A frighteningly clever man unable to ensure his own kids were safe. Kids were 1 and 3 at the time so 3 years of opportunity to learn. We were swapping cars on a holiday and he looked a total dick (I was feeding at the time but had to come out and sort it). He remembers that as a terrible holiday but fails to remember why: he thinks it’s because the kids were so young but it wasn’t that, it was because he was shown to be utterly shit at the parenting stuff in front of the whole family and it was gut wrenching.

I wouldn’t do couples counselling. He’d be awful at it and wouldn’t buy into it. I’m not massively keen in it mysekf, you’d need a brilliant counsellor which I’ve never been able to find.

@Dividingthementalload
Have you ever just said ‘you’re in charge today?’ at the weekend. And see what happens? And all the questions reply, ‘I don’t know, you’re in charge.’

Kidkane- no I haven’t, but I like it!

Let me know if you try it!

"I do resent having to assign jobs, heart of hearts I want him to arrive at the conclusions himself and he just doesn’t."

People aren't mind readers. If you want him to do something, then tell him. If you want him to do it every weekend, then tell him. He will not suddenly intuit after 10 years that all of a sudden he is to do xyz on the weekends.

You have set up the pattern of behaviour by not asking for help on the weekends.

90 hour work weeks are huge. They're mentally exhausting and all you want is some time without people being at you and having to think. Make it easy for him and tell him that on the weekends you need him to do....

OP, the book for you is Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. She considers the issues you discuss, comes up with her own extensive list of the 'shit women do' and goes o
to suggest a way of sharing it more fairly. One interesting insight is that it's much better for someone to have complete ownership of task than to be asked to do it. So partners hold 'cards' for the various things that need to be done (eg washing), which mean they are completely responsible for it, but it does need to be done to agreed minimum standards. The cards can be reallocated on a regular basis and don't have to be dealt equally, but should result in male partners taking on a lot more of the stuff that women do that they haven't noticed.

Wife of a 90 hour a week working DH here too. I really can’t describe just how hopeless he is with anything other than his very specific technical job. I also work but was doing everything (by that I mean everything - including anything car related, finance, insurance - you name it). Kids would be put in wrong uniform etc etc etc. Everything you’ve described.

I now have a housekeeper. I was managing before with a cleaner and various babysitters, after school care etc but now I’ve consolidated it all and it don’t expect anything of DH.

I’ve tried many of the techniques described upthread but the problem is that DH is 50 now and actually seems incapable of getting past this learned incompetence. We got together later (in 30s) and didn’t appreciate his lack of practicality until DD1 had arrived.

I haven't rtft so not sure if anyone already suggested this but what about ordering a couple of hello fresh or similar meals per week for him to cook at weekends? That way he doesn't need to think about it or shop for it, just pull it out and follow instructions.

I hear you BTW. I am a sahm so I take most of the mental load and I do consider that fair most of the time. However I did absolutely everything for Christmas and always do for DC birthdays too. I abd the DC were all ill in the month before xmas so I was utterly exhausted in the run up and still did it all. And it really spoiled Christmas for me because I just resented it all.

This gives a flavour of the ER book time-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/time.com/5690007/divide-household-chores-fairly/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp=true&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15781755037251&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftime.com%2F5690007%2Fdivide-household-chores-fairly%2F

I have read many of the posts and a I relate to a lot of your experiences.

I have shouted,nagged, raged, discussed, debated etc etc.

My situation sounds similar, but not identical, to yours.

This is what I have done; stopped buying birthday cards for his family. I still buy gifts for our nieces but he buys for his brother and parents. This year he forgot his brother's birthday

I have lowered my standards regarding the house, we do not have a cleaner. The house is tidy and clean however he never notices the floor needs mopping etc.

I find Christmas enlightening as we are all around . He does cook but I tend to initiate cleaning.

I try to focus on the children and ensure stuff is done for them.

No answers tbh I just try to find ways of coping perhaps I have 'given up' but like you I am peri menopausal and do not feel I am entirely level in my judgement at the moment!

@tinysnickersaremyfavourite that’s a good suggestion: I get mindful chef delivered; DH cooks and cleans up a couple of meals at the weekend. It takes him hours but if leave him to it and he enjoys it