Dividing the mental load?

[Dividingthementalload]

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

You do sound a bit as if you want things done your way. I think it is not unreasonable for you to do the food shopping but expect him to do some cooking at the weekend.
It is no good moaning that things are not done the way you want. Just let go and not mind if lunch turns out to be jam sandwiches (perhaps make sure you have peanut butter in).
You say that you end up shouting. I hated working for anyone who regularly had a strop and shouted. Be realistic, why should he do every meal at weekends? Choose your battles.
i worked full time when both my children were little and I remember being furious one day when I came in at five to see my husband sat on the sofa with the children watching kid's tv rather than being productive in the kitchen. I very quickly learned to let go and let him do things his way and not interfere. It is hard not to be controlling.
Let go, facilitate him doing more in a positive way or go back to work full time and pay for a housekeeper. Your husband has facilitated you working part time at home and not complained. Compromise is a wonderful thing.

If he's working a 90 hour week that changes things a bit. Does that mean he's also working some of the weekend? Otherwise he'd be working 18 hours a day, 5 days a week which I don't think is physically possible as you have to eat and sleep too.

Get a few nice M&S meals a couple of nights a week that you just shove in the oven and require no prep.

I think if you've decided that one of you is going to have such an intense work life so you can be well off financially, then the other one will have to pick up the majority of the household tasks. If that's not what you want then you need to talk to him about reducing his work hours to be present with the family more.

Around, yes I agree that some people can manage big jobs and also be thoughtful. Sadly he isn’t one of them.

Yes I do love him. Yes he does love me. We are very close. Without doubt there is far more good than bad about him and our relationship. Before he left today I said we needed to talk and gave him the heads up. He looked sad. It doesn’t fall on deaf ears, I just think that by not doing it for most of the time, it doesn’t come naturally when he has down time.

I don’t want someone coming in every day. I just want some division of labour during weekends and holidays. And the reason the gardening has to go is because it is easy to farm out and it is the very task which takes him outside for the the whole os Saturday to listen to the football. He can do that inside while doing the washing and cooking instead which contributes t family life rather than cutting a few bushes which no one apart rfom him notices and no one gives a shit about.

Once he has got used to having to think about what we all eat, what we need to wear, how we need to plan and shop before we cook etc

I think you're in for a disappointment OP.

Am reading all the posts and taking it all in, thank you. Food for thought.

The 90 hour week involves weekends yes, but as I said further up, that’s a worst case scenario. However most days he is up and out before the kids are up and back after bath time. I have asked him recently to stop going in so early when he doesn’t have to be - I think he has got rather used to pleasing himself, avoiding family and going into work to have toast and coffee with a paper at his desk.

After 10 years and regular nagging, you need to accept that he doesn't want to change and isn't going to. The issue is whether you accept this and work around it with a housekeeper etc or you leave - although you'd still be left with everything then and sporadic contact if any.

So many depressing threads on here about mens whose lives are facilitated by women. In fact there was a thread about this very thing just recently.

He doesn't do these things because he doesn't have to - you'll do them or they just won't get done.

When I say avoiding family, I mean the drudge - getti;g the kids up and out in the mornings is never a pleasure and he likes to avoid it I think.

Im probably going to be in the minority here and say that as you chose to work part time so that you could raise your children ( i also do this and have done for a while ) then part of that is doing most of the associated ‘mental load’ type stuff

Not alone at all, I'm also struggling a bit at what mental-load is really being talked about here, what people are having for lunch or dinner is not a mental load problem unless you are constrained by a budget, just make sure there are options when you do the shopping, which one you have depends on use by dates. When money's tight, that's not true, but there's no budget problems here. "what to feed the kids" is not important stuff, it's trivial.

The OP describes their DP's experience of parenting, they may not think it an unreasonable one, so there are different expectations, the OP wants to be heavily involved with the children, and work, meaning they only get the chance to have time "off" at weekends, that's not unreasonable, but the other parent also only gets the chance to have time off at weekends.

To me it seems you both just want to work loads, and you also want to "parent" loads in the week, which sounds like it's rather full on, and you also want your DP to "parent" in that same full on fashion at the weekend - despite him presumably having a more detached view of what is required (evidenced by the boarding school etc. experiences which he doesn't presumably hate)

Yes, you shouldn't need to answer questions about simple stuff, so don't, but I'm quite amazed by the amount of stuff that needs doing, if it's such a chore.

Sounds just like my husband but without mine earning such big bucks! It's exhausting & lonely.

I did say this morning that it would be easier without him - tat was after he had worked around a bucket which was draining in the sink instead of putting it away and taking some washing out but failing to put in a set of soiled bed linen that really needed an urgent wash. I said it would be easier because I wouldn’t be resentful about doing it all on my own if he wasn’t here. When he is here he does nothing and I’m resentful of it which is worse.

Reealise it probably isn’t and that is just the anger speaking.

He sounds like a very selfish man. He doesn't seem to anything for the kids unless it's benefitting him in some way.

But he also seems to want to avoid the nicer things OP, like chatting to his kids in the bath. He's seems to have checked out of family life. What's his relationship like with the kids?

Sorry I don't think he will change

I think your last post about him feeling he can go in early to read the paper is really indicative of your situation

This is where my husband got to and it turns out he was going in to meet someone for coffee, who made him feel really good about himself.

As many pp have said men are quite simple creatures and the feeling of being important and valued at work turns out to be way preferable to being questioned about their abilities at home

Sad but true and I'm glad I'm now on the way out of a relationship like yours that I justified for many years on the basis I could be home flexibly with the kids and have financial stability

My kids value me much more out of the relationship and see that I am happy and fulfilled in myself even if I'm not home as many days after school. I am closer to all of them

He doesnt sound a great dad at all, sorry. Can you try to get through to him via the kids? Sounds like he barely knows them and does the bare minimum, eventually they will reach an age where they notice sadly.

Google the mental load. It isn’t just about financial difficulties and worries. It’s the thought process that goes into running a family and kids, what they wear (washing, shopping for new clothes, dressing appropriately), what they eat (allergies, preferences, food shopping, preparation, clearing away), where they go (appointments, medical stuff, dentist, hobbies, friends, school), their commitments (school, homework, music practice, parties), their pastoral neEds (what we do about bed wetting, that friendship issue at school, are they happy, pubescent, food allergies,), family commitments (holidays, friends, family visits, birthday presents and cards), Household commitments (bills, fuel refills, bins and recycling, when they go out and are collected, car MOT and service, tv licence renewal, house insurance, car insurance etc etc etc.

The list goes on. The mental load is who thinks about what needs to be done and organises it’s completion. If you do all of this, all of the time, it’s utterly exhausting. I just want him to take some responsibility for some of this, all of which he benefits from.

He has a very close bond with both girls. He’s a wonderful dad. Thankfully they don’t see the lack of contribution behind the scenes yet, and that’s what I want to address.

And yes, he facilitates me working part time and child caring, but it was a joint decision. Neither of us wanted to farm their care Out and so one of us had to go part time. He actively wanted this too, but didn’t want to do it himself.

Facilitated men.
I forgot about that.

He does need to step up. I work part-time from home (15 hours a week) and my husband has a consuming job. Whilst I account for most of the domestic mental load, my husband does the following:

Makes the kids their breakfast
Takes out the rubbish
Makes bill payments
Cooks at the weekends

I do everything else, which I think is fair enough. It’s really important for your children to see some division of domestic labour, so write him a short list of chores and take it from there.

Mental load is a red herring. You do everything it seems, apart from he takes them swimming - or rather, gives them a lift while he goes to swim lengths.

Why does he think this is OK? Bollocks to boarding school and a cold mum -I can match that, yet I manage to do laundry properly. Does he just think domestic things are women's work?

I know people say this all the time but kids want time more than stuff excepting teenagers perhaps and I don't see how you can be a mega dad only seeing your dc when they go to bed and at weekends. Is he entirely happy with his life, the hours he needs to work, his relationship with the children? It might work better if you all shifted a bit - so he want just adding more stuff for him to do but shuffling it all around. You could work more and him less, for example, though it sounds like you could both work less and still have enough money.

Counselling might be a plan too for deeper issues.

How exactly is he a wonderful dad?

Stopgap - did your partner just assume these roles or did you have to assign jobs to him? I do resent having to assign jobs, heart of hearts I want him to arrive at the conclusions himself and he just doesn’t.

I totally hear what everyone is saying about facilitation. He’s an older dad, lived alone for a long time, only had himself to look after for a long time, after seeing a family life where mum did everything. He loves that I’m a strong feminist type in some ways but then accepts my self appointed housekeeper role. Its infuriating. But I can see how I have allowed this to develop by not making it grounds for divorce earlier in the child rearing years. He was never able to make a bottle without asking instructions, couldn’t ever put the car seat in safely, etc and i suppose I stepped in because it was my kids safety at stake otherwise. And that bled into everything else.

Time for change though.

OMG, I know!!!!

I think you need to have a long conversation with him about how you're feeling, including menopause symptoms etc. Do you have anyone who can watch the kids while you go out for a drink and talk about all this.

I bear the mental load in our house and until recently my husband would be very defensive if I tried to talk to him about it. But he took a few days off work recently and saw just how much I have to deal with and I lost my shit and finally he sat up and took notice. We had needed to get out for the day and as usual I had all our stuff in bags (ten fucking bags!) to leave the house and was like "look - this is mental fucking load - all this stuff in all these fucking bags is in MY FUCKING HEAD and it's not pretty!" Sorry - that's all about me, but I just want you to know, I hear you and I get it! LOL

In my experience (with a husband who works very hard) he needs guidance and support to know a) what you want of him and b) how to do it. You could discuss the things you'd like him to take on at the weekends and how he can go about it. So, for example, the kids need to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and these meals are good bets for them, but you can ask them what they want too.

Re washing - personally, if anyone else touches that machine in our house, they invite death! I think that the washing schedule needs to stay with one person because that really is a case of too many cooks don't think about how they're going to get everything dry again! Putting stuff away is a different matter - I tend to sort stuff, but he'll sometimes take it upstairs. (as an aside, my OH once said to me "you don't do the washing, the washing machine does the washing!" He's never lived it down and on the occasion that the dry washing pile takes up a 2 seater sofa, and he's commented on it, I tell him the damn machine is broken becaus it's not putting the washing away!!!!")

In short, it's going to take work and willing on your part as well as his to overcome this situation. He's probably not going to be able to spontaneously step up, but he sounds willing.

If you do have this huge conversation, be sure to address the issue of "helping". It shouldn't be seen as "helping" but taking care of the shit that he's equally responsible for".